Vive_La_Villa Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 I don’t get why fans are so against us playing Watkins or Ings as a wide forward. They are both more than capable. Ings tracking back today was fantastic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 If Bailey is fit we have to go 4-3-3. As many have mentioned Targett is very poor as a wingback. He needs a winger/inside forward to overlap with. Leaving him out wide by himself leads to poor crosses and lost possession. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Not sure what has happened to our style if play for a while now. We just seem to look for those long balls over the top far too often and we just end up giving away possession. I am sure we never used to play this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) It is difficult to work out just how the new players fit in, especially when we have moved to a system which pretty much negates having wingers/attacking midfielders. I hope this current formation is a stop gap until we get our sh*t together, or at least something we need to try when trying to avoid getting turned over by the big boys. We have a stronger squad, if we can utilise that squad and keep our key players fit it will be interesting to see if we can improve on last season. Realistically I think it's going to take at least another 5-6 games before we see will genuinely be able to see if we have progressed or gone backwards. I think Ings is a great signing as Ollie needed back up, just feels odd that we are trying to sandwich them in the same side, but Dean seems completely happy with them whereas most of us are scratching our heads. Edited October 4, 2021 by VillanousOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 If we want to continue with this high press/wing back system and also get our more creative players in there then we need to go to 3-4-3. Axel - Konsa - Mings Cash - McGinn - Luiz - Targett Buendia - Watkins - Bailey Can put Traore/Ings in for Bailey and or shift Watkins wide (I don't like that though). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV82 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 17 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: If we want to continue with this high press/wing back system and also get our more creative players in there then we need to go to 3-4-3. Axel - Konsa - Mings Cash - McGinn - Luiz - Targett Buendia - Watkins - Bailey Can put Traore/Ings in for Bailey and or shift Watkins wide (I don't like that though). If you think our midfield was weak today we'd get destroyed with that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) The long ball thing is weird to me too. This is not how Smith played at Brentford. 5-3-2 isn't the way to move forward. It has severe limitations against teams who defend deep. I repeat what's been said above. You need to get your creative players in the team. In this 5-3-2 system we only play with 2 attacking players. So the formation is negative by nature. You're literally sacrificing an attacking player for another defender. The long throw ins is tedious to me as well. So much time wasting for nothing. It's Pulis esque how we played today. Edited October 3, 2021 by villalad21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Rightdm00 said: If Bailey is fit we have to go 4-3-3. As many have mentioned Targett is very poor as a wingback. He needs a winger/inside forward to overlap with. Leaving him out wide by himself leads to poor crosses and lost possession. We went with the 3 5 2 to combat Chelsea. It sort of worked so we tried it again and it worked both times. I think that Deano would have been classed as insane if he had not started Bailey against Manure so he was lucky he was injured. 433 would be my choice with Bailey and Buendia either side of one striker. I would prefer Bailey on the left as the Targett pace issue can be negated alot like when he played with Grealish. Bailey isnt just a speed demon. He has really good vision and passing ability so i think could link up well with Targett. Deano has a hard decision to make that he knew would come at some point. Either tell Watkins he is playing left of the front 3 and put Ings up top with Bailey the other side or make the sensible decision and drop one of them totally. Ings and Watkins will both expect not to be dropped and will be banging on the managers door if they are but Buendia Bailey and Traore all are starters as well who shouldnt be on the bench. The whole point of a stronger squad is to give options from the start. Unless we start doing a different type of sub. Play em for 45 mins and then subs at half time. Ings and Watkins can toss to see who plays first or second half 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 1 hour ago, AV82 said: If you think our midfield was weak today we'd get destroyed with that team. It wouldn't because the front 3 press, you don't need to fly the CMs forward like we have been doing. I'd prefer to just go back to a 4-2-3-1 and actually get Buendia and the wingers we paid 20-30m for into the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: It wouldn't because the front 3 press, you don't need to fly the CMs forward like we have been doing. I'd prefer to just go back to a 4-2-3-1 and actually get Buendia and the wingers we paid 20-30m for into the team. My local club uses that exact formation with a high press. Only problem is with only 3 subs I don't know how you maintain that intensity for 90 minutes. 4-2-3-1 is the choice for me as well. Buendia, Bailey, and Bertrand is a dream for any striker they are supporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 One thing I think Smith needs to be more open to is the idea of playing our strikers wide or as 10s. It would open up formations like 4-3-3 and 3-4-3 while still getting both Ings and Watkins involved in the same lineup. You look at the great strikers of recent years like Henry, Rooney, Ronaldo, etc and so many of them have played like this, I don't think it's an insult to the player to make him play a bit wider or deeper. From what we've seen recently, Ings and Watkins are both more than willing to track back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted October 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 4, 2021 Not a fan of 3-5-2 despite our recent success with the formation. I wouldn't throw it out completely, but it shouldn't be our default. Why? Because it puts too much emphasis on the wing backs - and both Cash and Targett have relatively poor output at the top of the field (Cash, in particular, was awful yesterday both with and without the ball). Classic example was Spuds second goal. Cash has the ball out wide about 10 metres past halfway. He plays an awful low percentage "hopeful" ball down the line to Watkins who is not in any position to get to it. Our back 3 have pushed up in a high line expecting better output, so all Spuds need to do is immediately play a ball down the line over Cash's head..... .... which is exactly what they did and Son races into the box with us all trailing in his wake. 2-1 and game over. A 4-3-3 would have been better, as the two wide forwards (Traore, Buendia, El Ghazi - take your pick) have arguably better output, and we leave Cash and Targett further back to deal with Son and Moura. That means sacrificing either Ings or Watkins - and I think that's what we need to do. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, MWARLEY2 said: We went with the 3 5 2 to combat Chelsea. It sort of worked so we tried it again and it worked both times. I think that Deano would have been classed as insane if he had not started Bailey against Manure so he was lucky he was injured. 433 would be my choice with Bailey and Buendia either side of one striker. I would prefer Bailey on the left as the Targett pace issue can be negated alot like when he played with Grealish. Bailey isnt just a speed demon. He has really good vision and passing ability so i think could link up well with Targett. Deano has a hard decision to make that he knew would come at some point. Either tell Watkins he is playing left of the front 3 and put Ings up top with Bailey the other side or make the sensible decision and drop one of them totally. Ings and Watkins will both expect not to be dropped and will be banging on the managers door if they are but Buendia Bailey and Traore all are starters as well who shouldnt be on the bench. The whole point of a stronger squad is to give options from the start. Unless we start doing a different type of sub. Play em for 45 mins and then subs at half time. Ings and Watkins can toss to see who plays first or second half Excellent summary of our situation. The question is, will Smith have the balls to drop one of Watkins-Ings (if he agrees with that assessment in the first place). His reluctance to drop hopeless Barkley last season (until our season petered out and it was too late), might suggest he has not. Edited October 4, 2021 by Czarnikjak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 Guys, I have this crazy and wild formation we could try. Its called 4-4-2. Drop Hause and Ramsey for Buendia and Bailey/El Ghazi if he still ain't fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) He either needs to move Ollie wide left or drop Ings or Watkins. If Bailey is back for Wolves I’d like to see him, Buendia and Traore behind Ings or Watkins and us playing through the opposition rather than hitting it aimlessly long. Ramsey and Hause are ok squad players but they shouldn’t be starting and give the ball away too much. They can be the ones to make way with the introduction of a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 formation. We have too much talent in attack to be playing this current system. If we had Cafu and Roberto Carlos as our wing backs maybe I’d understand, but we don’t. Cash and Targett are ok going forward but we don’t need to rely on them when the wingers are the strongest part of our squad. Edited October 4, 2021 by VillaFaninLondon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MentalM Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 Copy pasting since it suits here better: I personally wouldnt mind seeing a 4-4-1-1 Martinez Cash - Konsa - Mings - Targett Buendia - Luiz - McGinn - Bailey Ings Watkins Both Luiz and McGinn holding more, and we could change into a 4-2-3-1 by pushing Buendia and Bailey further up if the match suits it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 No way Bailey starts against Wolves whatever happens after very little football and two injuries already this season. He will be brought back slowly when fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicho Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 I think our future lies in playing our best players at the same time. Which seems obvious but I’m not sure it is then our best formation. 4222 Defence Mcginn Luiz Buendia Bailey Watkins Ings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, ozvillafan said: Not a fan of 3-5-2 despite our recent success with the formation. I wouldn't throw it out completely, but it shouldn't be our default. Never been a fan of it because you're taking out a more skilled attacking player to accomodate another center back and then expecting full backs to be wingers when you have players like Traore, El Ghazi and Bailey when fit to do that job. Edited October 4, 2021 by PaulC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, PaulC said: Never been a fan of it because you're taking out a more skilled attacking player to accomodate another center back and then expecting full backs to be wingers when you have players like Traore, El Ghazi and Bailey when fit to do that job. Also you never see a top manager using it consistently. If Smith thinks we are to predictable playing 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 then he needs to figure out a way to fix it and thats not a 5-3-2 or 3-5-2. That system is for mid table at best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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