VillaChris Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 23 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: That's a 4-2-4 in practice - our best XI needs three midfielders in midfield - shoehorning in the four attacking players makes us weaker imo. It's very Man. United esque isn't it? Just like Ronaldo, Pogba, Bruno and Greenwood or Rashford looks amazing on paper but reality is we and Everton handled all them o.k in last two weeks. In long run think v most opponents we'll only be able to get three of those out on the pitch to make sure the central midfield remains effective so given Ollie is a certain starter and Bailey surely will be soon means one of the 30m men will have to be left our. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: They do, as does Watkins, but there's a difference between being a hard working forward and a proper midfielder - perhaps more of a concern would be the two behind them, McGinn is wasted as one of two holding midfielders, he'd want to be more of an eight - if we were to play Buendia as a ten, we'd need to play our best holding pair - Luiz and Nakamba - I think we lose far too much doing that. All of our best formations in my opinion include no more than three of Watkins, Ings, Buendia, Bailey and Traore - and some only have room for two of those - I understand the desire to get four of those into the team, but unless we're going to go out and buy N'Golo Kante to mop up behind them, I'm not sure how we can do it without giving up the middle of the park and with it any control of the game. We had one in Idrissa Gueye....but couldn't hang on to him...but another like that will do....its amazing how a team with Messi, Neymar and Mbappe, feel a need for such a player, but that is an epitome of balance, someone has to win the ball. N'golo Kante is one of the best out there as was Makelele earlier, and Essien wasn't bad either.....There are many still out there, who could do a good job for us. but lets remember, Kante was bought by Leicester from Caen for around £6mill.....hardly insurmountable stuff.....just smart scouting won the day.....Gueye was only 9mill too....they are out there. Firstly, though, you have to know what your looking for, in order to find it....We need more tenacity in midfield to win the right to play football. Edited October 6, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 4 hours ago, TRO said: We had one in Idrissa Gueye....but couldn't hang on to him...but another like that will do....its amazing how a team with Messi, Neymar and Mbappe, feel a need for such a player, but that is an epitome of balance, someone has to win the ball. N'golo Kante is one of the best out there as was Makelele earlier, and Essien wasn't bad either.....There are many still out there, who could do a good job for us. but lets remember, Kante was bought by Leicester from Caen for around £6mill.....hardly insurmountable stuff.....just smart scouting won the day.....Gueye was only 9mill too....they are out there. Firstly, though, you have to know what your looking for, in order to find it....We need more tenacity in midfield to win the right to play football. TRO, isn’t Nakamba that player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 20 hours ago, TRO said: I think we all do, whatever that is......but I don't see, playing excesses of ball playing numbers as an answer to creativity.....Bailey, is needed, I grant you that, but so far, Buendia, is a shadow of himself, it seems like finding pukki was his forte and those runs are not being made, its a co-ordination issue.....but giving the ball away cheaply, will not take us anywhere....we will continue with this inconsistency of results and midtable will be our parking lot. Firstly, you can't create without the ball, so getting it is a start, and keeping it, is next.....In my humble opinion we have 3 x CMs....as opposed to a CDM,CM,ATM.....they can neither attack of defend in any great quality, consistently.....now I know, I will have opposing opinions on this, and I accept we have taken some huge scalps with it.....but I am talking in a general sense....some games we are better than others....Spurs first objective, was to stop us, (until they won that battle)as opposed to Man U'S objective was to out play us, from the get go. Against Spurs, we started quite well and pressed early on, when our passing went astray and resorted back to giving the ball away cheaply, the press subsided and their midfield started to take control....They captured the initiative. We undoubtedly have good players, but we need contrast in the future,particularly in midfield, Sanson might help, when he is fit, Tim Iroegbunam, might be the answer in time or Chukweumeka......but right now it looks too samey for me. Son, was the standout player granted.....but Skipp, Ndombele & Hojbjerg....won the battle for control. I come back to my earlier comments " They stopped us better than we stopped them" These players of theirs was missing against Arsenal....We felt the backlash and it was always on the cards, with a quality side......consistency is what we are all looking for. Agree on the central midfield. Wanted a dominant ball winner in the summer and we didn’t get one, Nakamba isn’t favoured but he could have done a job against Spurs. Hojberg is exactly the type of tenacious midfielder we lack. Buendia should come good, you can see he’s got the quality, Watkins can make those runs and we have 2 strikers much better then Pukki, but Buendia needs games to be able to help us. Bailey will become our best player IMO, but he’s no wing back so can’t play in this system. I’m interested to see the shape and personnel against wolves. Think he’s got to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) On 06/10/2021 at 21:25, sir_gary_cahill said: TRO, isn’t Nakamba that player? I think he is close....not sure he has the ball control or passing ability to be that player....I really like the lad and I think he has improved no end, but..... I will say this, he is the only one of his type in the squad, I find that surprising. We need someone with his ability to defend and snuff out danger, but at the same time, move forward on the ball with aplomb and start the attacks....someone who is hard to shift off the ball in times of physical challenge and dictate the play and tempo of the game...a general, a disruptor and a creator, like Graeme Souness was....a Dave McKay for the older ones.....A Jude Bellingham for the Younger ones. These players are out there, but it requires the will and focus, to find one. Edited October 7, 2021 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 11 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said: Agree on the central midfield. Wanted a dominant ball winner in the summer and we didn’t get one, Nakamba isn’t favoured but he could have done a job against Spurs. Hojberg is exactly the type of tenacious midfielder we lack. Buendia should come good, you can see he’s got the quality, Watkins can make those runs and we have 2 strikers much better then Pukki, but Buendia needs games to be able to help us. Bailey will become our best player IMO, but he’s no wing back so can’t play in this system. I’m interested to see the shape and personnel against wolves. Think he’s got to change it. He's only got to change it, if you think the system didn't work.....if you think some of the players struggled to apply themselves, systems won't necessarily make up for that. The system worked against 2 top teams.....It didn't work against Spurs (Imo) because some of our players allowed themselves to be overrun.....A system change could, but not necessarily improve that. I don't see a huge amount wrong with 3-5-2.....or would 3-4-3 be better or would 4-4-2 suffice.....which ever one is right, the players have to move away from 6's as their performance level and give more 7's and 8's.....then you will see a more consistent team performance and result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 (edited) Dean has to make changes in tactics and personnel. With three at the back we looked decent on the ball vs Chelsea but still lost 3:0 We did ok against Everton but only really came alive when the formation was changed when Bailey came on. We were superb with that formation against Man Utd and it wasn't a fluke we won, but you can't ignore their penalty miss and the fact their recent form has been iffy. I feel the players let us down more than the system vs Spurs, but we also didn't make the changes to tactics and personnel anywhere near quickly enough and if Bailey was available that would have changed. At the moment I don't think Ings and Ollie work in the 3:5:2 formation at all, that might change in time, but ultimately we need to get Bailey, Buendia and even Traore and Anwar involved more. Or else why did we spend so much on these players if we have no plans to use them, yet are shoe horning Ings into a formation that ultimately he looks lost and isolated in (most of the time). I always presumed the 3:5:2 was a solid formation to stop us from getting rogered by the big boys and hope we continue to use it for that. We beat Spurs last season without playing that formation, but get why Dean wanted to stick with it. Edited October 8, 2021 by VillanousOne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 On 07/10/2021 at 04:42, TRO said: We had one in Idrissa Gueye....but couldn't hang on to him...but another like that will do... People on here moaned often he wasn't good enough 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Kiwivillan said: People on here moaned often he wasn't good enough he needed time, something very few people on here afford any signing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 14 hours ago, VillanousOne said: Dean has to make changes in tactics and personnel. With three at the back we looked decent on the ball vs Chelsea but still lost 3:0 We did ok against Everton but only really came alive when the formation was changed when Bailey came on. We were superb with that formation against Man Utd and it wasn't a fluke we won, but you can't ignore their penalty miss and the fact their recent form has been iffy. I feel the players let us down more than the system vs Spurs, but we also didn't make the changes to tactics and personnel anywhere near quickly enough and if Bailey was available that would have changed. At the moment I don't think Ings and Ollie work in the 3:5:2 formation at all, that might change in time, but ultimately we need to get Bailey, Buendia and even Traore and Anwar involved more. Or else why did we spend so much on these players if we have no plans to use them, yet are shoe horning Ings into a formation that ultimately he looks lost and isolated in (most of the time). I always presumed the 3:5:2 was a solid formation to stop us from getting rogered by the big boys and hope we continue to use it for that. We beat Spurs last season without playing that formation, but get why Dean wanted to stick with it. I thought we played 3-5-2 against Chelsea to offer Steer more protection. We played really well so kept it for Everton and than United. 2 wins and I can understand why we didn’t change it. I agree it wasn’t the season that cost us v Spurs, they just wanted it more. Plus they had a world class player in Son who turned out to be the key difference between the 2 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 13 hours ago, VillanousOne said: he needed time, something very few people on here afford any signing Didn't he go because we got relegated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 18 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: People on here moaned often he wasn't good enough not all people on here , was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KAZZAM Posted October 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2021 All fit I think our best lineup might be.. Bailey --- Watkins ---- Buendia Sanson - - - - - - Mcginn Douglas Targett -- Mings - - Konsa - - Cash Martinez Hard to leave Ings and Bertie out but rotation is a thing and I just think this is a more practical team. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I thought we played 3-5-2 against Chelsea to offer Steer more protection. We played really well so kept it for Everton and than United. 2 wins and I can understand why we didn’t change it. I agree it wasn’t the season that cost us v Spurs, they just wanted it more. Plus they had a world class player in Son who turned out to be the key difference between the 2 teams. He was the key difference for the goals, but their midfield was the key difference in controlling the game. Where was Son against Arsenal? They did want it more and after a suspected week of ridicule, it was not surprising....3-5-2 is not the answer anymore than it is the problem. We have players who are consistent and some that are not so much.....we need to look closer at the inconsistent performers. here's a question.....what do you think we need to move from a midtable team to say 5th or 6th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I don't think Danny Ings or Ollie Watkins is the issue in our team, to stop us progressing.....I think better co-ordination needs to be worked on,sure. but in terms of quality.....I don't see us in the short/medium terms getting any better players than them....they are fine IMO. The issues are further back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, TRO said: He was the key difference for the goals, but their midfield was the key difference in controlling the game. Where was Son against Arsenal? They did want it more and after a suspected week of ridicule, it was not surprising....3-5-2 is not the answer anymore than it is the problem. We have players who are consistent and some that are not so much.....we need to look closer at the inconsistent performers. here's a question.....what do you think we need to move from a midtable team to say 5th or 6th? A fully fit Bailey throughout the season and a Buendia up to speed would go a long way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 26 minutes ago, KAZZAM said: All fit I think our best lineup might be.. Bailey --- Watkins ---- Buendia Sanson - - - - - - Mcginn Douglas Targett -- Mings - - Konsa - - Cash Martinez Hard to leave Ings and Bertie out but rotation is a thing and I just think this is a more practical team. Agree on everything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 6 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: When have we not shown up this season apart from Watford? If losing by the odd goal away to Spurs is not showing up then maybe expectations have become too high? Was huge disappointment over the Brentford result at the time. However I actually thought it was an o.k point as Brentford showed their level is far above 18th and they've proved it with results in last few weeks. We also had to put out a very makeshift central midfield that day, hopefully won't happen again this season. Spurs was just disappointing given the high standards we've set v Everton (second half) and Man. United but ultimately that's what mid table teams do, lack consistancy from one week to the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 3 hours ago, foreveryoung said: Problem is we will always be like this, we are midtable fodder I keep being told, an should appreciate it! If you class midtable as 6th-7th you're going to be eternally disappointed I think. I'm confident we'll be properly challenging for those positions this time next year, infact I don't think it's that far flung we could challenge this season but obviously need to keep key players fit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 On 09/10/2021 at 10:20, PaulC said: Didn't he go because we got relegated yes, I think he had a relegation clause which meant he was sold roughly at the same cost we signed him for. If we had stayed up and he had stayed he would have shown his quality and gained the consistency he has had at other clubs since. The point was anyone signed from another league needs at least a season to adjust no matter how good they are, this is a tough league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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