Team shape, tactics and personnel

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, romavillan said:

How's about...

I think we would get destroyed defensively in the wide positions. Especially against a team that has attacking full backs. 
 

When playing this shape we could switch Targett for Young until he finds some form but we have to play Cash in my opinion. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Vive_La_Villa

[romavillan]

3 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think we would get destroyed defensively in the wide positions. Especially against a team that has attacking full backs. 
 

When playing this shape we could switch Targett for Young until he finds some form but we have to play Cash in my opinion. 

When Bailey came on for Targett we didn't suffer defensively, Buendia is no mug at winning the ball back. Luiz or McGinn plugging the hole left by the wider CBs covering full backs could work and we'd boss possession against nearly anyone and we'd score a fuckload of goals.

[Tomaszk]

I think the only way to get all the new signings in is take up the Chelsea/Brighton shape and even then it isn't perfect. I just don't think it's going to work long-term.

               Martinez

     Konsa  Axel   Mings

Cash  Ramsey  McGinn  Bailey

         Buendia  Ings

              Watkins

It would be quite something to watch. I can only see it working v fairly weak sides. McGinn and Mings would have to be very responsible so you might have to switch Luiz or Sanson or Marv even for McGinn.

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Tomaszk

[KentVillan]

               Martinez

Cash    Konsa   Mings   Targett

Buendia   McGinn  Luiz    Bailey

             Ings     Watkins

This is the other way of integrating all the new key signings. Defensively, you could turn the 4-4-2 it into a 4-1-4-1 when you're sitting deep, by having one of the strikers drop back:

               Martinez

Cash    Konsa   Mings   Targett

                    Luiz

Buendia  Ings   McGinn  Bailey

                 Watkins

Basically I think having wide men who can play central (as I think Buendia and Bailey both can), and strikers who can play wide (Watkins) or 10 (Ings) means a 4-4-2 can be quite a solid defensive shape.

The big thing Buendia and Bailey both bring that's a massive upgrade on what we had last season, is that ability as creative players to really track back and defend aggressively. I think that opens up a lot more tactical possibilities now, with shapes that on paper might look a bit too "loose".

[Chicken Field]

Why do we have to shoehorn all our players on at the same time? It's great with a bit of unpredictabliity and rotational options. 

15 hours ago, romavillan said:

When Bailey came on for Targett we didn't suffer defensively, Buendia is no mug at winning the ball back. Luiz or McGinn plugging the hole left by the wider CBs covering full backs could work and we'd boss possession against nearly anyone and we'd score a fuckload of goals.

This was because of the way that match was set up at that time, which allowed it. Aslo Mings basically played left back when Bailey came on. 

It would be exposed if we started the game with him left wing back, teams would target and overload that side of the pitch. Buendia is good a pressuring and winning the ball back in attack, totally different to defending. 

Using Bailey and Buendia as wing backs would also eliminate a lot of their attacking threat, as they focus and energy would be used differently. (Bailey was not asked to do much defending, which he would be if he started there). 

All the teams that play 3 at the back, use fullbacks as their wing backs, there is a good reason for this. 

[Dante_Lockhart]

On 11/08/2021 at 21:59, TRO said:

That is certainly a perspective reminder.

I remember when Toner was coming through he was going to be immense.

[Dante_Lockhart]

18 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think we would get destroyed defensively in the wide positions. Especially against a team that has attacking full backs. 
 

When playing this shape we could switch Targett for Young until he finds some form but we have to play Cash in my opinion. 

Cash certainly seems to be preferring the Wing Back role to the Right Back role.

[ejs1111]

I understand the desire to get 'all' of our new players on the pitch at the same time.  But honestly I don't think that is the best answer.  Putting all of our best attackers on the pitch means we sacrifice a midfielder, and frankly we need 3 midfielders or we get overrun.  Putting an attacker in place of a defender out wide weakens our defense, so that is a non-starter imo...  I know we did that vs Everton- but our formation allowed for it.  I don't see it happening often- unless we are chasing a game.

Villa now have more quality depth than we've had in the past decade.  I'm of the opinion that we will have a solid back 4/5 every game (formation dependent)- which we have so far (MC, EK, TM, MT).  We have 3 players to provide depth on that backline with AT, KH and AY.  We have also shown how solid we are with a midfield 3- I'm confident that will remain as well.  6 players can compete with eachother for those 3 spots (DL, SJM, JJ, CC, MN, MS).

That leaves 3 spots typically for attacking.  Players will sit.  Players will be rotated.  This will be a good thing.  We won't need to rely on the same 11 the whole season and get burned out.  3 spots for 6 players (DI, OW, LB, EB, BT, AEG).

 

Nearly every match this season we are able to look at the bench and see players who could be in the 1st11.  It made the difference against Everton.  That deeper bench will earn us many points this season.  

UTV!

[TRO]

7 hours ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

Cash certainly seems to be preferring the Wing Back role to the Right Back role.

so am I.

[TomC]

13 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I think the only way to get all the new signings in is take up the Chelsea/Brighton shape and even then it isn't perfect. I just don't think it's going to work long-term.

               Martinez

     Konsa  Axel   Mings

Cash  Ramsey  McGinn  Bailey

         Buendia  Ings

              Watkins

I like the general idea...I think it would work as an asymmetrical 4-3-3 with Cash having license to go forward, making it more of a 3-4-3 in attack.

Ings seems to operate more on the right so I'd swap him and Watkins.

Apologies to Ramsey, who has been very good, but I would probably start Dougie ahead of him if we played this way.

 

[Delphinho123]

Thoughts on this?

               Martinez

     Konsa    Axel     Mings

Cash    Luiz  McGinn  Targett

         Buendia       Bailey

                  Watkins

[MWARLEY2]

58 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Thoughts on this?

 

               Martinez

     Konsa    Axel     Mings

Cash    Luiz  McGinn  Targett

         Buendia       Bailey

                  Watkins

Ace. Yet another formation that we have the players to carry it out.  And you could play McGinn instead of Targett and drop Nakamba in midfield . Controversial i know but i think McGinn would be devastating in that position. 

[VillanousOne]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

Thoughts on this?

 

               Martinez

     Konsa    Axel     Mings

Cash    Luiz  McGinn  Targett

         Buendia       Bailey

                  Watkins

I think this formation makes the most sense.

With Buendia, Bailey rotating with Ramsey, Traore and Ings depending on the opposition.

[MaVilla]

3 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Thoughts on this?

 

               Martinez

     Konsa    Axel     Mings

Cash    Luiz  McGinn  Targett

         Buendia       Bailey

                  Watkins

its good, but i just find it hard to leave Ings out of our primary 11, he's such a good player.

Its hard as we do have a few good players now, when was the last time we scratched our head over our first 11!?

I like the 343/352/3421/3412 variations, but i also like the 433/4231, its great we can now play both!

For me, if it were 3412 type (Bailey has played the LWB spot for Leverkusen before, and lets not forget how good he was in that LWB role versus Everton....):

                   Martinez

  Konsa - Tuanzebe - Mings

Cash - Luiz - McGinn - Bailey

                Buendia

          Ings - Watkins

 

If it were a 4241/433 ish.

                Martinez

Cash - Konsa - Mings - Targett

            Luiz - McGinn

    Bailey - Buendia - Watkins

                    Ings

or:

                Martinez

Cash - Konsa - Mings - Targett

      Buendia - Luiz - McGinn

       Bailey - Ings - Watkins

                   

 

[Adam2003]

On 12/09/2021 at 15:24, villalad21 said:

Where is our next win coming from? 

2 wins from 2 since this now. Next please!

[villalad21]

5 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

2 wins from 2 since this now. Next please!

But where is our next win coming from?

[bcarpet]

                Martinez

Cash    Konsa   Mings   Targett

                Luiz   McGinn

Buendia         Ings           Bailey

                 Watkins

That would probably be the shape and side i would go for against most teams.  Having watched Ings now, it seems he likes to work hard and drop slightly deeper anyway, so would make the ideal 10.  Buendia played his best football for Norwich on the right I believe so this would suit him, and we've already seen what Bailey can do on the left.

Its just nice having options to be honest.

[CVByrne]

On 22/09/2021 at 10:10, Tomaszk said:

I think the only way to get all the new signings in is take up the Chelsea/Brighton shape and even then it isn't perfect. I just don't think it's going to work long-term.

               Martinez

     Konsa  Axel   Mings

Cash  Ramsey  McGinn  Bailey

         Buendia  Ings

              Watkins

It would be quite something to watch. I can only see it working v fairly weak sides. McGinn and Mings would have to be very responsible so you might have to switch Luiz or Sanson or Marv even for McGinn.

 

 

 

 

I am sure we'll play this team at some point with Luiz in place of Ramsey and possibly Ings more forward in a 2 with Buendia behind them. It's a way to set up more attacking when at home to teams we are fav to beat. 

[tomav84]

12 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Agree, do you think young should come in for Targett? Can't help thinking that if he really clicked offensively, we could blow the bottom half of the table away. MT was rightfully our POTS last year and should still play his fair share too.

i can see us starting bailey at WB i.e. the way we finished vs everton

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Agree, do you think young should come in for Targett? Can't help thinking that if he really clicked offensively, we could blow the bottom half of the table away. MT was rightfully our POTS last year and should still play his fair share too.

I think he still needs some time to recover from his summer injury, the mauling against Sarr ( when he was unfit) and losing Jack, who held the ball up, will take time to adjust.....at the moment, I think he is ok, but we need quicker feet in there, long term.

I think these additional players give us so many options to play around with......what about playing with one winger and one wing -back, In A 3-5-2......We only played with one winger( Morley) when we won the league?...just a thought.

Its like Dean himself has come alive, with these options....There is no static formation and if its not working, we can change it.

I also think Hause has saved us some money....He really is a credible replacement, who is going to be hard to shift.

To think.....going to OT with only one player in the side from the Grealish money and coming away with a win ( I know Emi got on for a cameo)....shows the overall improvement in the so called lower profile players in our squad.