Team shape, tactics and personnel

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

I think it might be more fundamental than that. Three at the back has reduced the defensive workload on the midfielders, freeing them to do what they are good at. I don't think the midfielders are better since we've switched to 3-5-2, I just think their defensive frailties are no longer as prominent, and the rest of their game is highlighted. 

I mentioned in one of the pre-match threads that I could see 3-5-2 working for us given the lack of a DM signing in the summer. Just makes sense to me. Obviously then there is a selection headache at the other end, but that's a different story. Not sure how Bailey and Buendia fit into this system if I'm honest, and I love both of those guys. 

We'll see. Maybe it will be horses for courses. 

 

Thinking about it.....I think you are right.

I like your observations.

could we play with one winger as opposed to 2? with Matty cash as a wing back, so Bailey would come in for Targett and Mings would go to the left of the defence.

[Phil Silvers]

12 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

i can see us starting bailey at WB i.e. the way we finished vs everton

Deano would literally be saying this is us, I don't care who THEY are.

[Steero113]

4 hours ago, bcarpet said:

                Martinez

Cash    Konsa   Mings   Targett

                Luiz   McGinn

Buendia         Ings           Bailey

                 Watkins

 

That is pure filth. Pure, unadulterated, filth. 

[HKP90]

30 minutes ago, TRO said:

Thinking about it.....I think you are right.

I like your observations.

could we play with one winger as opposed to 2? with Matty cash as a wing back, so Bailey would come in for Targett and Mings would go to the left of the defence.

Many thanks sir.

You mean an asymmetric formation, not in terms of position, but role? 

I reckon this could work, yeah but we would either be asking a lot of our LCB (Mings is probably our best bet) or the leftmost midfielder who may need to track back if Bailey is marauding, leaving a hole in midfield. I guess all it would take is to be well drilled in each position, and know exactly where each player needs to be at any given time. Plus we know Bailey has an engine, so could catch most counterattacks on that side before they begin. 

[MWARLEY2]

       Watkins        Ings        Bailey

  McGinn            Luiz             Buendia     

Targett     Mings       Konsa       Cash

                           Martinez  

Against the so called weaker teams this would be my formation. Gets 5 attacking players onto the pitch and still with a chance of controlling midfield 

[Davkaus]

I think there have been some winners and losers from Jack being gone. McGinn looks like a new man, I'm sure he loved Grealish being here, but he is playing so much better without him. On the other hand, Targett looks to be struggling, last year he was basically playing on hceat mode with Grealish ahead of him, but hopefully his life becomes a lot easier in the coming weeks with Bailey fit.

Individuals aside though, we already look a much better, more rounded team, with threats spread over the final third preventing a single double-marking from cancelling out our attack. Even when Grealish was fit, we saw a double marking completely nullify his game, and we had nothing else even with the extra space available. Selling him hurt but it already looks to be paying off. Onwards and upwards.

[AV82]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

I think there have been some winners and losers from Jack being gone. McGinn looks like a new man, I'm sure he loved Grealish being here, but he is playing so much better without him. On the other hand, Targett looks to be struggling, last year he was basically playing on hceat mode with Grealish ahead of him, but hopefully his life becomes a lot easier in the coming weeks with Bailey fit.

Individuals aside though, we already look a much better, more rounded team, with threats spread over the final third preventing a single double-marking from cancelling out our attack. Even when Grealish was fit, we saw a double marking completely nullify his game, and we had nothing else even with the extra space available. Selling him hurt but it already looks to be paying off. Onwards and upwards.

Targett as a WB has gone from Grealish in front of him to... no-one. 

[TomC]

11 hours ago, tomav84 said:

i can see us starting bailey at WB i.e. the way we finished vs everton

Not impossible...

Konsa - Tuanzebe - Mings

Cash - Dougie - McGinn - Ramsey - Bailey

Ings-Watkins

That would probably be asymmetric...Bailey would be more forward, so Cash probably would not have as much license to get forward so we could have at least 4 true defenders back. McGinn might be more withdrawn too to provide more cover on our left.

Still doesn't leave any room for Buendia, unless you put him in for Ramsey. In a sense that works better, because Ramsey and McGinn tend to play on our left, while Buendia prefers the right and would balance McGinn better. You could make the midfield look more like...

              Dougie (more withdrawn)

Cash - Buendia - McGinn - Bailey

Sort of a 3-1-4-2...

 

[ThunderPower_14]

1 hour ago, TomC said:

Not impossible...

Konsa - Tuanzebe - Mings

Cash - Dougie - McGinn - Ramsey - Bailey

Ings-Watkins

That would probably be asymmetric...Bailey would be more forward, so Cash probably would not have as much license to get forward so we could have at least 4 true defenders back. McGinn might be more withdrawn too to provide more cover on our left.

Still doesn't leave any room for Buendia, unless you put him in for Ramsey. In a sense that works better, because Ramsey and McGinn tend to play on our left, while Buendia prefers the right and would balance McGinn better. You could make the midfield look more like...

              Dougie (more withdrawn)

Cash - Buendia - McGinn - Bailey

Sort of a 3-1-4-2...

 

Yep, this is how I would start us with everyone available. Ramsey hasn't done anything wrong and he's probably the first replacement if any of Buendia/McGinn/Ings/Watkins are out. 

Dougie being a bit withdrawn allows him to help the defence get in position as the wingbacks go forward. 

Bailey's speed will make him deadly on crossfield diagonal passes like Ings' beauty to put him in for his goal, and the threat of that should open up defences for Buendia and McGinn to get into. 

I love this team at the moment. I had my doubts with the 3-5-2 but the performances have been undeniable. 

[CVByrne]

I think a 3 5 2 can adapt into a 4 3 3 depending on being in posession or out of posession.

if we started with Mings Hause Konsa, Bailey, JJ, Luiz, McGinn, Cash, Ings, Watkins

We could have Mings shift over to left a bit more and Cash playing as a right back at times. Luiz a bit more protective of the left hand flank knowing Bailey is a more attacking threat

This way we keep the solidity of the 3 man defence which allows the 3 man midfield to impose themselves on the game like we've seen. 

Both Ings and Watkins have a tendency to drift left from CF positions too which opens up space for Bailey to charge into from left wing back. 

I've very interest to see how we go about the Wolves game after the international break. I want to see how we set up at home to a bottom half team.

[CVByrne]

12 hours ago, TomC said:

Not impossible...

Konsa - Tuanzebe - Mings

Cash - Dougie - McGinn - Ramsey - Bailey

Ings-Watkins

That would probably be asymmetric...Bailey would be more forward, so Cash probably would not have as much license to get forward so we could have at least 4 true defenders back. McGinn might be more withdrawn too to provide more cover on our left.

Still doesn't leave any room for Buendia, unless you put him in for Ramsey. In a sense that works better, because Ramsey and McGinn tend to play on our left, while Buendia prefers the right and would balance McGinn better. You could make the midfield look more like...

              Dougie (more withdrawn)

Cash - Buendia - McGinn - Bailey

Sort of a 3-1-4-2...

 

I'd see it more as a 3-2-3-2

You would have Luiz and McGinn sitting deeper than Bailey, Buendia, Cash with Ings and Watkins up top. We get a front 5 in attack

This would appear as a 3 4 1 2 on the teamsheet with Buendia behind the two forwards, but is could easily be a 3 4 2 1 as Ings drops very deep in games relative to Watkins. What is great about all those players with the exception of Bailey is their workrate off the ball. 

[Czarnikjak]

This is pretty interesting, we are very direct counter attacking team, very much an outlier.

 

[TomC]

3 hours ago, Czarnikjak said:

This is pretty interesting, we are very direct counter attacking team, very much an outlier.

And look who is at the other extreme! No surprise there. (Except that Brighton is with them.) It will be interesting when we play them, and not just because of you-know-who.

The funny thing is that I don't think of us as a pure counterattacking team in the sense that we deliberately sit back and wait for a chance. This looks only at the speed of the counterattack, not how often you do it. It would be interesting to see a plot of this statistic against possession time.

[Delphinho123]

If Leon Bailey does play left wing back and plays well there then we have the makings of one hell of a team, we really do. 

A 3-5-2 with Bailey and Cash as the wing backs and Buendia playing just behind the striker is the stuff dreams are made of. 

[CVByrne]

30 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

If Leon Bailey does play left wing back and plays well there then we have the makings of one hell of a team, we really do. 

A 3-5-2 with Bailey and Cash as the wing backs and Buendia playing just behind the striker is the stuff dreams are made of. 

Have to agree, would be magic. Can tinker with it like Targett and Ramsey come into it if we're away to a City or Liverpool. 

Just thinking of the raw pace of Bailey and Kessler Hayden next season in the wing back positions. Will be magical

Edited September 29, 2021 by CVByrne

[HKP90]

13 hours ago, Czarnikjak said:

This is pretty interesting, we are very direct counter attacking team, very much an outlier.

 

Interesting!

I've always thought that it is possible to be a counter-attacking team and play attractive, exciting football. I've never subscribed to the opinion that you can only play that way against the top teams, although they are the ones who are most likely to be attacking themselves, particularly at home. I guess you have a few options in the locker tactically, but I have no problem with our baseline tactic being direct counter attacking. 

If you have the right personnel it's surgical, not hoof and hope. 

[PaulC]

The only issue at the moment is that Ings who is the most natural goal scorer we have is not getting any chances in the front of goal. Hopefully that will change. 

[sir_gary_cahill]

10 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

If Leon Bailey does play left wing back and plays well there then we have the makings of one hell of a team, we really do. 

A 3-5-2 with Bailey and Cash as the wing backs and Buendia playing just behind the striker is the stuff dreams are made of. 

I’ve only seen a bit of Bailey but I don’t think he’s a wing back. I don’t think we should restrict him or shoehorn him in to a wing back role. At the same time, I don’t think he should be given a free role, Smith and the other coaches can teach him how to defend, it’s a requirement of the modern game

[sir_gary_cahill]

7 hours ago, PaulC said:

The only issue at the moment is that Ings who is the most natural goal scorer we have is not getting any chances in the front of goal. Hopefully that will change. 

PaulC, you think he is more of a natural goalscorer than Watkins?

[PaulC]

45 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

PaulC, you think he is more of a natural goalscorer than Watkins?

Yes hes a much better finisher. Watkins can get there though! If I had to pick who to play out of the two it would be Watkins every time though

Edited September 29, 2021 by PaulC