Ross Barkley

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, MNVillan said:

I think the longer and better he plays, the more expensive we’re making him. I don’t care, not my money.

The good thing is, hopefully be next summer, if things progress as they seem to have the potential to, we can afford to spend more money, on even less players.

We might only need 3 - 4 max. ( Including him ).

More deadwood should also be gone by then to free up wages.

Hopefully a higher finish and more Tv money etc.

Although, he's only played one game, we could hate him by next month end. lol

[Rightdm00]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

The good thing is, hopefully be next summer, if things progress as they seem to have the potential to, we can afford to spend more money, on even less players.

We might only need 3 - 4 max. ( Including him ).

More deadwood should also be gone by then to free up wages.

Hopefully a higher finish and more Tv money etc.

Although, he's only played one game, we could hate him by next month end. lol

This is where Lange and his scouts will really come through. If Chelsea returns with some ridiculous price then we need to make sure we have some alternatives ready to go.  The main thing that Ross provides us with is time. Another year to solidify our status as a Prem club. Hopefully mid table or higher. 

[cheltenham_villa]

10 hours ago, QldVilla said:

I don’t disagree. But the argument from the club was they didn’t want to improve a players worth. For example, say they tried to buy Barkley rather than a loan and the fee was $25-30m, if he has an outstanding season for Villa, most likely other clubs will come a knocking and drive up the price and Vila could be paying $50-60m? Or Lampard has a second season shocker gets sacked and another manager goes into Chelsea and has his own opinion about Barkley.

it was the clubs argument, obviously something changed their mind, we all saw the difference Barkley made against Liverpool. This argument would be mute if a fee had already been agreed at the end of the season, but all reports are they haven’t. The club can do what they want, just seemed a strange decision when they were so vocal about not going to loan without a buy clause.

I didnt think the club were that specific though I thought the argument had been more about not developing other clubs talents. Either way I take the point and also even if they have changed their mind, I'm ok with that. Barkley is an excellent loan signing who I suspect was beyond a club that had just finished 17th. I say this from a club and player perspective, I just dont see him joining permanently at that point in time and I dont see us being able to afford him right now. Hopefully a strong year will change that.

[tinker]

Let's not get to carried away with Barkley , he scored a goal and missed a few and didn't assist . His overall play was better than we have seen before but in another game missing chances and not assisting, from where he was playing, would not be a great performance.

Hes definitely benefitting by playing along side Jack, the most creative English midfielder in the World, but then most creative midfielders would. 

After one season he will not even be our player , good business for both clubs but financially Chelsea will always have the better deal.

 

 

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, tinker said:

Let's not get to carried away with Barkley , he scored a goal and missed a few and didn't assist . His overall play was better than we have seen before but in another game missing chances and not assisting, from where he was playing, would not be a great performance.

Hes definitely benefitting by playing along side Jack, the most creative English midfielder in the World, but then most creative midfielders would. 

After one season he will not even be our player , good business for both clubs but financially Chelsea will always have the better deal.

 

 

If Chelsea finish 5th and we finish 10th, we would have the better deal.

[Lord Willard]

12 minutes ago, tinker said:

Let's not get to carried away with Barkley , he scored a goal and missed a few and didn't assist . His overall play was better than we have seen before but in another game missing chances and not assisting, from where he was playing, would not be a great performance.

Hes definitely benefitting by playing along side Jack, the most creative English midfielder in the World, but then most creative midfielders would. 

After one season he will not even be our player , good business for both clubs but financially Chelsea will always have the better deal.

 

 

Good points. Obviously not our player, we made Tammy loved but he still didn't come. Still he holds us in high regards. 

We know Barkley isn't our player yet, no one knows if there's a option to buy or not. Trent knew about this deal for a while, why did it take so long for loan? Perhaps it was due to the negotiations for his purchase price later on? 

Either way, everyone is excited because he adds a new dimension to our attacks and it looks fantastic. 

[ozvillafan]

Not sure if this makes sense, but here goes:

Premise 1: Ross Barkley could have signed for anyone.

Premise 2: Ross Barkley wants to play football week in week out at the highest level.

Premise 3: Ross Barkley will improve the more game time he gets, making him a chance for international caps.

Premise 4: He chose Villa for all the above reasons.

Premise 5: Returning to Chelsea would see him back where he was (substitute at best). This is also likely the case for the other "big" clubs.

Wild conclusion: At the end of the year, he is going to be grateful for his opportunity here and, if he's going to move, it would only be for first team football. If our season is a good one (finish top half), then I suspect he will want to stay, not leave, so long as we continue to build.

 

[kidlewis]

8 hours ago, Rightdm00 said:

This is where Lange and his scouts will really come through. If Chelsea returns with some ridiculous price then we need to make sure we have some alternatives ready to go.  The main thing that Ross provides us with is time. Another year to solidify our status as a Prem club. Hopefully mid table or higher. 

The only thing is if Ross really enjoys his time here he can cause a stir and force a move. 
 

providing we still offer something sensible, quite what that is I don’t know. £40m?

Can always look at the prices of players Chelsea brought in to replace him and state Barkley can’t be worth near those as they’ve replace him.

 

he was a Chelsea squad player as well and not a regular starter so they can’t even say that he’s a key player. 
 

unless we’ve already agreed a buy option within the loan. 

[a-k]

3 hours ago, Lord Willard said:

Good points. Obviously not our player, we made Tammy loved but he still didn't come. Still he holds us in high regards. 

We know Barkley isn't our player yet, no one knows if there's a option to buy or not. Trent knew about this deal for a while, why did it take so long for loan? Perhaps it was due to the negotiations for his purchase price later on? 

Either way, everyone is excited because he adds a new dimension to our attacks and it looks fantastic. 

I have been wondering if there is a potential buy clause in the loan, but the price is dependent on many things. For example, agreed set fee of A million to purchase in January or B million to purchase at the end of the season. Then, if Ross has scored 10 goals at the purchase time, add X million if purchased in January or Y million if purchased at the end of the season. And so on... as with add-ons to direct transfer fees. Could explain a dragged-out process to agree on all those options.

[MapleVilla]

I think the club are more apprehensive about taking a loan on a younger player that we have no intention or will be highly unlikely we will sign. A prospect if you will. We don't want to be helping develop a younger player like that. Ross (although young) isn't an 17/18 year old trying to break in the mens team. Everyone has seen what he is capable of. It's just a case of whether he can do it consistently and at the level we think he can play it. We have him for the season. If he performs well and we have the funds to buy him next summer, great. If not he goes back to Chelsea. All we've done is give him play time and pay some of his wages.

[KenjiOgiwara]

Wouldn't mind seeing some heat maps from the scouse mauling. You got the feeling he was box to box in a very literally sense. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara

[Vancvillan]

I can't believe I'm being the Darren Downer, but we should keep in mind it's been one game. It was a good performance on a day when everything clicked for the team as a whole. 

His speed on the ball and general physicality definitely add something that was missing in our midfield, but I'm not yet concerned about another team swooping in at the end of the season.

The next few games might show he still needs time to settle and we should be prepared for that. He's also going to have his off days.

I know this probably sounds miserable after our best performance in recent memory, but I also remember Guilbert's debut (see around page 23 in his thread) and plenty thought that him and Jota were the keys to our future success. Barkley is a cut above Guilbert, but he's also a long way from a 60m move to PSG.

[sidcow]

2 hours ago, Vancvillan said:

I can't believe I'm being the Darren Downer, but we should keep in mind it's been one game. It was a good performance on a day when everything clicked for the team as a whole. 

His speed on the ball and general physicality definitely add something that was missing in our midfield, but I'm not yet concerned about another team swooping in at the end of the season.

The next few games might show he still needs time to settle and we should be prepared for that. He's also going to have his off days.

I know this probably sounds miserable after our best performance in recent memory, but I also remember Guilbert's debut (see around page 23 in his thread) and plenty thought that him and Jota were the keys to our future success. Barkley is a cut above Guilbert, but he's also a long way from a 60m move to PSG.

[Kiwivillan]

3 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Wouldn't mind seeing some heat maps from the scouse mauling. You got the feeling he was box to box in a very literally sense. 

 

[Icarium]

15 hours ago, ozvillafan said:

Not sure if this makes sense, but here goes:

Premise 1: Ross Barkley could have signed for anyone.

Premise 2: Ross Barkley wants to play football week in week out at the highest level.

Premise 3: Ross Barkley will improve the more game time he gets, making him a chance for international caps.

Premise 4: He chose Villa for all the above reasons.

Premise 5: Returning to Chelsea would see him back where he was (substitute at best). This is also likely the case for the other "big" clubs.

Wild conclusion: At the end of the year, he is going to be grateful for his opportunity here and, if he's going to move, it would only be for first team football. If our season is a good one (finish top half), then I suspect he will want to stay, not leave, so long as we continue to build.

 

To be fair though, a lot of what you said could also be applied to Tammy and we know how that went. Still too early to know whether we would want to make the move permanent anyway, one data point doesn't make a trend.

 

(I am optimistic however based off what we saw v Liverpool)

[Paulie]

12 hours ago, Icarium said:

To be fair though, a lot of what you said could also be applied to Tammy and we know how that went. Still too early to know whether we would want to make the move permanent anyway, one data point doesn't make a trend.

 

(I am optimistic however based off what we saw v Liverpool)

only difference is tammy was initially slotted directly back into the first team XI at chelsea and it seemed like that was chelsea's plan all along.  hard to see where barkley fits into the chelsea midfield 12 months from now.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Paulie
redundancy

[MattVillaPortsmouth]

2 hours ago, Paulie said:

only difference is tammy was initially slotted directly back into the first team XI at chelsea and it seemed like that was the plan on chelsea's plan all along.  hard to see where barkley fits into the chelsea midfield 12 months from now.

And Chelsea had a transfer ban, so couldn’t buy to replace 

[ZL-]

Percy has mentioned in his recent article that we are paying the full £110k wages and there is no option to buy, which echoes the far more unreliable Gregg Evans.

Behind a pay wall but for those who would like to read: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/17/special-agent-jack-grealish-new-aston-villa-recruit-ross-barkley/

@TrentVilla the credit has to go to you for breaking the transfer but I seem to remember your source also told you that Chelsea would be paying a portion of the wages and there would be an option to buy. Do you know if maybe the goal posts move or this is just guesswork by Percy?

 

[Adam2003]

42 minutes ago, ZL- said:

Percy has mentioned in his recent article that we are paying the full £110k wages and there is no option to buy, which echoes the far more unreliable Gregg Evans.

Behind a pay wall but for those who would like to read: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/17/special-agent-jack-grealish-new-aston-villa-recruit-ross-barkley/

@TrentVilla the credit has to go to you for breaking the transfer but I seem to remember your source also told you that Chelsea would be paying a portion of the wages and there would be an option to buy. Do you know if maybe the goal posts move or this is just guesswork by Percy?

 

All that means is there is no obligation to buy - could still be an option to buy. Not that I think there is, don’t think Chelsea would have agreed it.

Also would be amazed if they were contributing to his wages - if you loan a player from a fellow PL club to go right into your team you can assume you’ll usually have to pay their salary...

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, ZL- said:

Percy has mentioned in his recent article that we are paying the full £110k wages and there is no option to buy, which echoes the far more unreliable Gregg Evans.

Behind a pay wall but for those who would like to read: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/17/special-agent-jack-grealish-new-aston-villa-recruit-ross-barkley/

@TrentVilla the credit has to go to you for breaking the transfer but I seem to remember your source also told you that Chelsea would be paying a portion of the wages and there would be an option to buy. Do you know if maybe the goal posts move or this is just guesswork by Percy?

 

I was told they were paying part and would be an option but that was two weeks before it happened so guess it could have changed. Honestly I don’t know, I’ve not heard anything since it was done.