Ross Barkley

[Laughable Chimp]

20 minutes ago, Thug said:

As much as I love smith for everything that he’s done at Villa, let’s not pretend he’s without errors in judgement.

The same coaching staff thought that Danny Drinkwater at 5% match fitness, coming from a loan spell where he couldn’t get into a poor Burnley team, was the answer to our midfield problems.  Worse still - continued to play him, despite him being comfortably the worst player I have seen in a villa shirt - in the blind faith that he would by some miracle rediscover the form of a few seasons ago.
A blind faith that almost cost us our premier league status.

He frequently will persist in leaving players on the pitch when they are obviously gasping for air, and leave 3 sets of fresh legs twiddling their toes on the bench.

I love the man - but spotting a knackered player is not his strongest trait.

And after his little tantrum, I wait to see if Barkley gets a full 90 in the next match even though he’s crawling around after 60.  

I'm still not convinced Drinkwater wasn't matchfit. He was with Burnley for months and aside from that one month injury layoff, surely he'd been training with them to regain his match fitness? Was he just twiddling his thumbs not doing anything on the training ground? Then he comes here and people act like he hadn't been on a pitch for 6 months.

I think he was just crap and Smith starting Drinkwater for a couple of games was less to do with trying to help him regain his match fitness and more a desperate attempt to try and fix the midfield before being eventually forced to accept the conclusion that he was indeed just crap and then never played him again, not even as a sub. At that point of the season, our central midfield looked pretty gash so any one new coming in would've looked like a sight for sore eyes.

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Laughable Chimp

[Thug]

5 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I'm still not convinced Drinkwater wasn't matchfit. He was with Burnley for months and aside from that one month injury layoff, surely he'd been training with them to regain his match fitness? Was he just twiddling his thumbs not doing anything on the training ground? Then he comes here and people act like he hadn't been on a pitch for 6 months.

I think he was just crap and Smith starting Drinkwater for a couple of games was less to do with trying to help him regain his match fitness and more a desperate attempt to try and fix the midfield before being eventually forced to accept the conclusion that he was indeed just crap. At that point of the season, our central midfield looked pretty gash so any one new coming in would've looked like a sight for sore eyes.

 

He started FOUR games (almost 10% of a season), before it clicked that he was utter garbage.  At the time I posted whoscored stats (I know stats don’t paint the whole picture, but suffice to say that in this instance they do) that had him amongst the lowest 10 rated player in ALL the leagues they covered around the world.

It was a shocking decision to persist with him.  Let’s not try to dress it up any different.

 

[Thug]

27 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

I remember thinking at the time that they got him pretty cheap. It was probably due to the long injury the season before. If I was making the decisions I'd probably stretch to 20 million pounds but that's about it. I would however be waiting until the end of the season also to make the decision.

Transfer fees are largely dictated by the length of the contract remaining. He was in the last year of his contract.  Everton had to make a choice of accepting a £15m bid then, or losing him for free in the summer.  
In the grand scheme of things, they got a pretty good fee for him.

[ZL-]

Since Barkley's return I have been more and more frustrated with the soft underbelly of our midfield. It's clear watching Ross trot back casually that it's putting too much pressure on McGinn and Luiz, whether its tactical by Dean or fitness it certainly is our weakness at the moment.

HOWEVER, the downside he offers defensively even if he isn't involved directly in the build-up he massively seems to unshackle Watkins. Watkins has scored 9 of his 10 goals this season when Barkley has been on the pitch I believe and I don't think that is a coincidence. Ross is frustrating to me to no end in how soft he's made out midfield 3 however I'm not sure whether it is tactical by Dean and looking at Watkins numbers since Ross return we certainly have to consider the benefit he brings on that side.

[DaveAV1]

9 minutes ago, ZL- said:

Since Barkley's return I have been more and more frustrated with the soft underbelly of our midfield. It's clear watching Ross trot back casually that it's putting too much pressure on McGinn and Luiz, whether its tactical by Dean or fitness it certainly is our weakness at the moment.

HOWEVER, the downside he offers defensively even if he isn't involved directly in the build-up he massively seems to unshackle Watkins. Watkins has scored 9 of his 10 goals this season when Barkley has been on the pitch I believe and I don't think that is a coincidence. Ross is frustrating to me to no end in how soft he's made out midfield 3 however I'm not sure whether it is tactical by Dean and looking at Watkins numbers since Ross return we certainly have to consider the benefit he brings on that side.

That’s interesting and highlights that the coaching staff are looking at a much wider spectrum of factors. I’m sure they see Barkley’s faults very clearly but at the moment anyway, they think they are outweighed by his positive effects. It may be a marginal call but they have to make it. We don’t have an obvious replacement that gives us the positives that Barkley’s attacking play does. 

[villalad21]

Rich man's Conor

[Mister_a]

I'm on the fence, if he didn't have his name and supposed promise and you saw him play for another team, would you say 'I think we should spend £30-40 million on him and make him one of our top earners?'

I just can't see it at the moment. He has flashes of quality, followed by moments of indecision.

He does pop up with some goals, and links up well with Jack, but he offers little defensively, and I'm not sure we can afford that kind of luxury if we want to progress into the European places in the PL in the next few years.

 

 

[QldVilla]

 

The point was made that Watkins is scoring again since Barkley is back in the team and it’s common sense as no matter what we think as supporters, opposition players will see Barkley as a threat, which frees up Watkins, Grealish etc. The threat and advantage he brings is countered by less defensive acumen.

For me, he’s still showing glimpses of his quality. I thought he was very good before his injury so willing to give him the rest of the season to show his worth to the club. I think fitness is holding him back at the moment and think his little tantrum on the weekend was more frustration with his own performance. Sometimes think he’s over thinking things and just needs to get back to the basics.

[MentalM]

I think he is far from match fit, shows glimps of quality, however not enough work off the ball. 

[Kingman]

£15/20m on realistic wages might get us round the table.

Talks of £30/40m and being one of the top earners then no chance. 

I would rather give Jack the Barkley money for a new bumper 7yr deal. 

[Greenfly]

9 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

 

The point was made that Watkins is scoring again since Barkley is back in the team and it’s common sense as no matter what we think as supporters, opposition players will see Barkley as a threat, which frees up Watkins, Grealish etc. The threat and advantage he brings is countered by less defensive acumen.

For me, he’s still showing glimpses of his quality. I thought he was very good before his injury so willing to give him the rest of the season to show his worth to the club. I think fitness is holding him back at the moment and think his little tantrum on the weekend was more frustration with his own performance. Sometimes think he’s over thinking things and just needs to get back to the basics.

I think this is mainly it. I know what supporters think doesn't correlate to what the actual professionals think, but plenty of opposition fans regard Barkley as our second best, if not our actual best player right now.

If that's how he's viewed by opposition coaches, then his inclusion in the team is clear - he relieves attention from the true danger men, namely Jack, Ollie and Traore. Those are the three consistently causing the most trouble, but Barkley is still the biggest name on the pitch so no-one sees it.

[OxfordVillan]

5 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

 

The point was made that Watkins is scoring again since Barkley is back in the team and it’s common sense as no matter what we think as supporters, opposition players will see Barkley as a threat, which frees up Watkins, Grealish etc. The threat and advantage he brings is countered by less defensive acumen.

For me, he’s still showing glimpses of his quality. I thought he was very good before his injury so willing to give him the rest of the season to show his worth to the club. I think fitness is holding him back at the moment and think his little tantrum on the weekend was more frustration with his own performance. Sometimes think he’s over thinking things and just needs to get back to the basics.

It’s possible that Barkley is trying too hard to make an impression, and just needs to try and get his head sorted. Relax. He’s desperate to play and has stated his desire to try and make the England squad for this summer. 
Between the player and the coaching staff they probably need to find a way to just play football, forget about England right now, just concentrate on relaxing and enjoying the games. Do that and the rest will follow.

[Knutserov13]

A full weeks training will do the team and Ross Barkley the world of good.

Pretty sure they havnt been able to train properly for about a month or so.

[sne]

I think with his future up in the air he is afraid to pick up another injury meaning he is hesitant to go 100% into duels and is holding back a bit overall. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

17 hours ago, QldVilla said:

Don’t believe I suggested to throw him in the mix at all. The degrees in match fitness aren’t as significant as your suggesting. Your referring to their base fitness and is more likely why he is struggling because he was unable to keep the miles in his legs while he was injured. Therefore when he came back he’s coming off a lower base. 
 

At the end of the day, the coaching staff think it’s better to have an 80% fit Barkley on the field, then not at all.

You're rather confusing here. You said "You only get match fit by playing." Then said "You can only get so fit on the training pitch, the rest is game time.". I'd say throwing him in is pretty much what you're saying? 

You can call the fitness whatever you like, base fitness if that pleases you. Point is that there are absolutely obviously differences in fitness and what times a player should be exposed to first team football. Anyone that's ever played football knows this. 

[Bazmonkey]

i know its the Birmingham mail...but quoted 40 mil for him in the summer.

Its a no at that price.

On his day he can play....but lately gone off the boil...but then so has the rest of the midfield...there have been moments but not enough for me

[lexicon]

27 minutes ago, Bazmonkey said:

i know its the Birmingham mail...but quoted 40 mil for him in the summer.

Its a no at that price.

On his day he can play....but lately gone off the boil...but then so has the rest of the midfield...there have been moments but not enough for me

If they're asking that much they must want to keep him - half that would be right IMO. 

[Loxstock92]

At 40mil no thanks, as much as I like the guy and will back him to find his form again that’s too steep.

out of interest, what was his defensive/pressing like pre injury. On Saturday he just wasn’t closing down anyone with intent. Was this the same before he got injured? I don’t remember anything in the Liverpool game but then again I wasn’t really looking out for it.

[AVFCDAN]

1 hour ago, Bazmonkey said:

i know its the Birmingham mail...but quoted 40 mil for him in the summer.

Its a no at that price.

On his day he can play....but lately gone off the boil...but then so has the rest of the midfield...there have been moments but not enough for me

It’s a 100% we’ll drop him back at your ground no at the moment. 20 million of that is on the name and the fact he’s English.

[MaVilla]

2 hours ago, sne said:

I think with his future up in the air he is afraid to pick up another injury meaning he is hesitant to go 100% into duels and is holding back a bit overall. 

so....not willing to commit himself to the cause 100% to earn a move?, in fear of getting injured and not earning the move?, both of which could lead to a move not being earned?, rather than committing and trying to earn a move at the risk of getting injured and not earning a move?, so the dilemma is to play within himself and maybe earn a move?, or commit and get injured and not earn a move?, or to commit to effort and do well and earn a move?, or possibly hope he does enough by not doing enough to possible earn a move?, but by over thinking it and not committing 100% that may paradoxically actually lead to the move not being earned?, or should he just take the red pill and go down the rabbit hole and give 100% knowing there is a risk of not earning the move but it may be his best chance to earn the move?