Ross Barkley

[KenjiOgiwara]

Just now, Rolta said:

Is 'If he's not fit he shouldn't be playing; if he is fit, he's luxury' actually nuanced? I don't think it is at all. And that's what I was responding to (I might have missed some of your other posts, but, as I say, I had bolded the bit I was responding to).

Well it was more to that text than that, but can't stop you thinking incorrectly. 

[OxfordVillan]

13 hours ago, gurru991 said:

They certainly do whereas I find I'm wrong time after time.  

I just don't think Barkley or Loftus-Cheek fit into that Chelsea team. 

Now there’s a player I hope we’re watching closely.......Loftus-Cheek. He’s playing himself in nicely at Fulham, earning some decent reviews. I think he could thrive further at Villa Park. 25yrs old, coming back from injury, struggles for game time at Chelsea. Ticks a lot of boxes for AVFC 

[Rolta]

35 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Well it was more to that text than that, but can't stop you thinking incorrectly. 

I've had my moments myself recently and hold my hands up (and I apologised), but do you ever wonder if maybe your responses often come across a certain way that is a little unnecessary?

OK, so which bit of the comment did I miss (sorry 'the text')? I'll quote it all here: "I am not so sure here. It's one of two to me. Either he's not fit yet, thus he shouldn't be playing. OR he's fit, but he doesn't have it in him to do proper work. In that case he's just a luxury player we can do without."

As I already bolded the middle bit, I'll paste in the bits that might constitute, in your words, 'more to that text' to see where I am 'thinking incorrectly'. I am not so sure here. It's one of two to me. and...In that case he's just a luxury player we can do without.' And maybe I did bold that last bit, but I'm not going to check because it's on a previous page now.

Nope, I don't see what I'm missing. You are the master of subtext. I already said I hadn't read every single one of your other posts (weirdly you don't always show up on my feed, and it has something to do with the first thing I said). Anyway, how is boiling down Barkley's worth to Villa into an 'either or' statement nuanced?

Edited February 9, 2021 by Rolta

[WooJung]

12 hours ago, pacbuddies said:

For £40m I would send him back. Not worth more than £10m IMO based on the fact we got McGinn for £2.5m.

The fact that we paid 2.5m on McGinn doesn't mean that's what he's worth though, is it? Value isn't only determined by ability, there are factors such as notoriety, background, that's player's previous transfer prices, the financial situation of the club selling, the league they're playing in, the ability of the people involved in negotiations, ecc.... 

Based on all of this there is no way Barkley's market value is anywhere near 10 million. Just like McGinn's isn't anywhere near 2.5 (any more). 

I would estimate Barkley's value, depending on how his season progresses, will be somewhere between 25-35 million. 

Weather he's worth spending that money on is a different matter. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

40 million is a hell of a lot of money. Based on what we have seen so far should we pay that? We all know the  answer is no. 
 

So it all depends on how he does from now until the end of the season as gets fitter. He has to play to improve. I get fans saying it’s at the expense of our results but I don’t think it is. He scored against Southampton and we won.  Would him not being on the pitch against Burnley and West Ham have prevented defeats? I don’t think so at all, we were just very poor all round with how we conceded goals.

So I think as we know what he is capable of continuing to play him so he can get match fit is the right thing to do. Theres not a single replacement on our bench that is as good as he can be when he is fully firing. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

39 minutes ago, Rolta said:

I've had my moments myself recently and hold my hands up (and I apologised), but do you ever wonder if maybe your responses often come across a certain way that is a little unnecessary?

OK, so which bit of the comment did I miss (sorry 'the text')? I'll quote it all here: "I am not so sure here. It's one of two to me. Either he's not fit yet, thus he shouldn't be playing. OR he's fit, but he doesn't have it in him to do proper work. In that case he's just a luxury player we can do without."

As I already bolded the middle bit, I'll paste in the bits that might constitute, in your words, 'more to that text' to see where I am 'thinking incorrectly'. I am not so sure here. It's one of two to me. and...In that case he's just a luxury player we can do without.' And maybe I did bold that last bit, but I'm not going to check because it's on a previous page now.

Nope, I don't see what I'm missing. You are the master of subtext. I already said I hadn't read every single one of your other posts (weirdly you don't always show up on my feed, and it has something to do with the first thing I said). I'll standby my assertion though that boiling down Barkley's worth to Villa into an 'either or' statement is the polar opposite of nuanced.

There are obviously less likely options, but they are even less flattering to Barkley. It can ofc. also be a mixture of him being unfit and not having it in him as well.

The fact is that he doesn't put in the work we expect him to, well at least some of us expect him to. Why is that? It follows from this sport, that you either don't keep up with the work rate required it's because: 

1) you're injured

2) you're uninterested, i.e. not giving a feck

3) you're simply not fit enough

4) it's not your style of play to graft

5) You're told not to graft

First one I didn't adress, cause it's very very unlikely he's carrying and injury after being brought back from injury. Especially when we rested him as long as we did. There hasn't been any signs of that either. 

Second one, obviously possible even if it's less flattering to suggest. I don't reckon so personally, based upon Deano, the team, watching him play and coming here in the first place. It's seems unlikely. Just like the first one did.

Third one, we're back to what I originally said and in which case he isn't ready to play 90 minutes or start matches. 

Fourth, which I also mentioned, is not entirely unlikely either, and if so he's just a luxury player we can do without. 

Fifth one, I seriously doubt Deano would have asked Barkley not to track runs into our box when it's clear it's becoming a monster chance to our opposition. Even Watkins do more defensive work. 

When you consider that you're left with what I orginially stated. But feel free to suggest the delicate nuances I'm missing here. 

I'll offer another perspective here as well. You say "Yet he's been a matchwinner for us a couple of times and when the team are playing well, he's had an important role in his play with Jack/Watkins/Traore and whoever else". Which is fair enough. I'd say for a player that's reported to valued at £ 40 million on 100 k pw wages, who plays as a second striker doing nowt defensive work. I'd expect what you're listing as the bare minimum. You would get that from any good footballer and you can buy several of those for the money he's on. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[Lord Willard]

I think he still has more to give.There is a player in there. 

At his current level we should probably part ways but if he does improve which I think he will over the next few months we should sign him. If he improve I think we can get him for 25-30m. If he stays at the same level he is worth £20-22m

[Thug]

14 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

4) it's not your style of play to graft

Im afraid it’s this.

Ive read a few historical articles on him, and this is a repeated criticism of him, even in his prime.

I’m trying to find an article I read written by an Everton fan after he moved to Chelsea.  I’d read it before, and I thought it was just sour grapes.  However, the chap described him perfectly.  Once I find it, I’ll post it.

If he wants a career at the top level, he’s going to need to adapt.  The days of the luxury player that just waits for his team mates to give him the ball before he ‘comes alive’ have long gone.  
There’s absolutely no reason why he can’t adapt, because he has the attributes, he’s just got to show the willingness to do it.

£30-40m for Barkley, when West Ham pay £18m for a player like Soucek?  I know who I’d rather have in my team.

 

 

[CVByrne]

I think the Club needs to decide what way we're going to play next season. We can then solve the signings based on that. The two top priorities were and centre forward, a right sided forward both with some pace (something we lacked in the team last season was pace in transition from defence to attack). They were solved. 

After that I'm pretty sure plan "a" was signing a left sided forward in Rashica and Jack moving to 10 with a front three tasked with the aim to get combined 30+ goals a season. 

We went with plan "b" which was keep Jack playing left and signing a 10 on loan in Ross Barkley.  Something I feel was discussed with Jack, is he happy staying wide left if we get Barkley in. As Jack had and has always stated prior to this season he prefers being in central role. 

So when it comes to the end of the season there is a decision to be made. We need to look at Barkley and how he has performed and how much he will cost. This is an obvious key factor. It's however not as key as what we want to do with Jack, do we want our best player to play in a 10 position like De Bruyne and Fernandes do for their clubs. 

If Jack is to stay wide left and Barkley as 10 is the way we want to set up then we sign Barkley and we look to sign a 2nd forward who can play in Barkley's position or CF so there is a good option to put pressure on the position. 

Personally I think we shouldn't sign Barkley and we should move Jack into a central role, if we have a big threat out wide left, someone who can score 10 goals a season then this will allow us to improve I feel

[paul514]

There is no way on earth I would pay 40 million for him. He hasn't performed well at all since he came back from his injury either.

I would simply buy other players you can apparently pick up Olise and Brandt for a combined 30 million for gods sake.

[Dante_Lockhart]

I'm sure I heard that he's getting more minutes on the game pitch than on the training pitch. Totally baffling really.

[KenjiOgiwara]

Unless he improves dramatically, I think the only way I'd sign him was if Grealish wanted it. 

I kind of want Barkley to shine here, so I'm really hoping it works out. But I can't see us being in a position where we can afford luxury players at £ 40 million fees, so things would have to happen with his performances. 

[paul514]

4 hours ago, OxfordVillan said:

Now there’s a player I hope we’re watching closely.......Loftus-Cheek. He’s playing himself in nicely at Fulham, earning some decent reviews. I think he could thrive further at Villa Park. 25yrs old, coming back from injury, struggles for game time at Chelsea. Ticks a lot of boxes for AVFC 

I'd prefer him to Barkley.

[paul514]

2 hours ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

I'm sure I heard that he's getting more minutes on the game pitch than on the training pitch. Totally baffling really.

I saw the same stuff on the TV.....

Drop him until that situation changes.

[sparrow1988]

41 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Unless he improves dramatically, I think the only way I'd sign him was if Grealish wanted it. 

I kind of want Barkley to shine here, so I'm really hoping it works out. But I can't see us being in a position where we can afford luxury players at £ 40 million fees, so things would have to happen with his performances. 

That's a very dangerous way of operating. I appreciate why you would think that way though.

[Sam-AVFC]

4 hours ago, OxfordVillan said:

Now there’s a player I hope we’re watching closely.......Loftus-Cheek. He’s playing himself in nicely at Fulham, earning some decent reviews. I think he could thrive further at Villa Park. 25yrs old, coming back from injury, struggles for game time at Chelsea. Ticks a lot of boxes for AVFC 

Read some Fulham fans views, most of them seem incredibly frustrated with how he has played so far for them and the fact he is getting bigged up in the media for it. Of course it doesn't stop pundits who don't watch the games raving about him.

[KenjiOgiwara]

19 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

That's a very dangerous way of operating. I appreciate why you would think that way though.

I completely agree, but I think when you come through the academy, become captain and arguably one of the best footballers in the world, that does mean you have a bit of saying power. 

[Rolta]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Unless he improves dramatically, I think the only way I'd sign him was if Grealish wanted it. 

I kind of want Barkley to shine here, so I'm really hoping it works out. But I can't see us being in a position where we can afford luxury players at £ 40 million fees, so things would have to happen with his performances. 

I can't imagine there's many people who'd suggest £40million looks like a good price at the moment. I like Barkley but that's too much. He is a part of a big improvement this year though. I guess we'll find out how Smith feels about it in the summer. 

[PaulC]

56 minutes ago, Rolta said:

I can't imagine there's many people who'd suggest £40million looks like a good price at the moment. I like Barkley but that's too much. He is a part of a big improvement this year though. I guess we'll find out how Smith feels about it in the summer. 

Nobody is going to pay 40 milliion for him in the current climate. On another thread people were mentioning not much more for Mo Salah who has to be worth treble what Barkley is. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Read some Fulham fans views, most of them seem incredibly frustrated with how he has played so far for them and the fact he is getting bigged up in the media for it. Of course it doesn't stop pundits who don't watch the games raving about him.

You'll start to realise alot of these players get bigged up based on :

A. Past reputation

B. Size of the club they are coming from.

C. Highlight reel

I also wonder if some of them come on loan from a perceived bigger club, and have a sense of entitlement/superiority.

I.E we should be grateful to have them.