AVFCforever1991 Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 11 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: You can, because to me they are more forwards than AEG and Traore are. You don't give out positions based on goal involvements stats. Otherwise Hourihane would be one and also a few goalkeepers. Odoi was playing wing back last season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 1 minute ago, AVFCforever1991 said: Odoi was playing wing back last season Then ignore him. They still have more options than us. Point stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 17 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Then ignore him. They still have more options than us. Point stands. Man United and Chelsea have more options than us who built a squad from near scratch 2 seasons ago after promotion. I agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 On 25/06/2021 at 13:24, brummybloke said: Double edged sword, pay him 200k pw and he's happy ( I bet he already is, on 125k ) but then it limits who would be in for him the following season as only 2 or 3 clubs will be offering that sort of wages. If we have world class players you pay the corresponding wage or they become unsettled. I don’t see a problem with that, forget contracts. If we want to be amongst the top you secure the talent otherwise we are dreamers. We have a chance with NSWE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MentalM Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 I am curious to the rumoured Grealish move, will it halt the recruitment until its solved with a new contract? Many of our targets are probably being convinced by Grealish staying and would now await the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 8 minutes ago, thunderball said: If we have world class players you pay the corresponding wage or they become unsettled. I don’t see a problem with that, forget contracts. If we want to be amongst the top you secure the talent otherwise we are dreamers. We have a chance with NSWE We also have to be sustainable. With restrictions being lifted there is more chance of sponsorship money so jacks profile as long as the club look at how other clubs have marketed world class stars and follow their lead then for him it would make sense. That's down to his skills, his image and his looks. If he looked like mgginn ( sorry John ) then he is from a marketing view point not worth it anywhere near as much. To get to the next level or higher we need to be either getting in next level players or having a way to play that all the team playing that way make them collectively better than individuals, and people are arguing over improving our striker line up saying we don't need another striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFirstMan Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Kiwivillan said: Not really. Majority of his goals/assists are from Grealish position on the left in 4231 when I say attacker, I mean a central striker or wide attacking player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 8 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: Saying Son is a striker is like saying Grealish is a striker. Their heat maps last season are near identical majority left but Grealish far more touches left final third. Spurs mostly lined up 4231 with Son ALM in the 3. Just because he played striker in the 3-2 win against us because Kane was injured makes Son no more a striker than El Ghazi is because he played a few games when Wesley got injured EDIT: Further investigation shows Son played in a front 2 last season in 4 games(x3 Kane x1 Vinicius) for 1 goal 0 assists. They lost 2 drew 2. Son played 28 games in Grealish position on left in 4231 for 15 goals 10 assists but if you looked at Harry Kane's heatmap he looked like a Attacking Midfielder. It's going to be hard to convince you and @MotoMkalibut that's fine. Strikers, attackers, wide forwards they all play as Forwards in modern day football. I suppose Salah isnt a striker but he definitely is a forward and as 'Useless' pointed out about many forward players. Modern football is about that fluidity upfront and if Son was purely a winger or AML he wouldnt have scored so many or the type goals he did this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 7 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I’d just like to say Son is neither a winger nor a striker. That is all. I call his type inside forward. They prefer playing wide, with few defensive responsibilities, looking to either cut inside and run directly at defenses, or move into that inside channel between fullback and centre and look to get in behind the defense. Basically working the channel and getting in behind is what they look to do when counter attacking. Running directly at defenders is what they do when in the opposition half and they have men behind the ball. Liverpool Play with one inside forward either side of Firmino who likes to drop off almost like a false nine. This creates more.space for those pacy inside forwards to attack. With Ollie we go the opposite way. We have him working both channels. Constantly looking to get in behind when in possession, and pressing relentlessly when out of possession. Then we have Jack and Traore wide as ball carriers when counter attacking, to bring the ball out of defense, and to run and player and work openings. Then we looked to get Barkley to support through the middle by provide extra support to Ollie as a late runner through the middle, and to support Jack and Traore to provide a more creative link up through the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 10 minutes ago, nick76 said: but if you looked at Harry Kane's heatmap he looked like a Attacking Midfielder. It's going to be hard to convince you and @MotoMkalibut that's fine. Strikers, attackers, wide forwards they all play as Forwards in modern day football. I suppose Salah isnt a striker but he definitely is a forward and as 'Useless' pointed out about many forward players. Modern football is about that fluidity upfront and if Son was purely a winger or AML he wouldnt have scored so many or the type goals he did this season. Kane played the last season as a cross between a false nine and penalty box striker. Prior to last season he was used as a cross between a poacher and a target man. Kane for me can only be used as a false nine type if you don't play with a creative 10, and surround him with pace. What I mean by creative 10 is a player like Jack. If the 10 is a hardworking player, that drops back into central midfield a lot, or is a quick player whose job is to run into Kane's position when Kane drops off. On a side note. Southgate has been trying to build England around Kane, this is why Jack is an issue. If you use him on the left then the best guys to play the Son role are Rashford and Sterling. If you play Jack at 10 Kane ends up getting in Jack's way every time Kane comes deep. That's why Rashford, Sterling, and Mount are preferred to Jack. When Mount plays 10 he comes very deep and England effectively plays as a midfield 3 or a 6 and 2 8's. Because he is pressing hard and tracking back a lot he often finds himself deep, and dropping deep also help play out from the back as Mount is far more gifted in possession than Phillips and Rice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Sell Wesley and buy a wide forward. This guy would probably not mind playing backup to Watkins. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 9 hours ago, The Fun Factory said: At present if we are lucky with injuries we can afford to have a relatively light squad. If in the future we qualify for Europe you would need more players. Essentially buying Tammy this season may be a year too early unless we can have long runs in both cups. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 31 minutes ago, brummybloke said: We also have to be sustainable. With restrictions being lifted there is more chance of sponsorship money so jacks profile as long as the club look at how other clubs have marketed world class stars and follow their lead then for him it would make sense. That's down to his skills, his image and his looks. If he looked like mgginn ( sorry John ) then he is from a marketing view point not worth it anywhere near as much. To get to the next level or higher we need to be either getting in next level players or having a way to play that all the team playing that way make them collectively better than individuals, and people are arguing over improving our striker line up saying we don't need another striker I am not dismissing your post, but we don’t have to be sustainable yet, and inevitably we won’t be until be get to the Champions League, that’s the strategy. We will continue to lose money every year while we build the squad that gets us there or they give up. NSWE have already invested nearly £500m and that would be a very poor investment to just be mid table, they need to get into CL to justify the investment. We are pretty close and strategically are not that far away given the structural challenges the traditional top 6 face and our free spending bravery. That’s why I don’t see Jack being sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, KMitch said: Uhh... Inter just won Serie A with a 2 man strike partnership of Lukaku & Martinez. Conte plays a 3-5-2. He played 3-5-2 or 3-5-1-1 at Chelsea too and whilst it was great in the season they won the league he got sacked a year later. In fact according to Who Scored even at Chelsea he played a 3-4-3 most often the year he won the league with Pedro & Hazard either side of Costa. Also, it's kind of the point that to make it work and be hard to beat, 3 CBs, Wingbacks and a double pivot is needed. VT was a nightmare when Dean was playing 3 at the back for part of our first season back. It doesn't suit us just because one team in another league have made it work this year. (A team that's already being dismantled) Also, I just don't believe Tammy and Ollie would work together even in that set up. They don't suit each other. We'd also have to leave out our best talents or play them in a weird set up. Martinez Konsa. Mings. Hause Buendia McGinn. Luiz. Targett Jack Ollie. Tammy Buendia or Cash at RWB. AEG and Traore have no chance here, maybe they get converted to strikers but only RWB Buendia can deputise for Jack. And after all of this, Tammy and Ollie would make a crap partnership anyway Edited June 27, 2021 by HalfTimePost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 9 hours ago, The Fun Factory said: At present if we are lucky with injuries we can afford to have a relatively light squad. If in the future we qualify for Europe you would need more players. Essentially buying Tammy this season may be a year too early unless we can have long runs in both cups. If we are lucky with injuries? Great plan that! I think we were lucky last season with injuries, unfortunately one of the injuries we did have was Jack. Although we shouldn’t be surprised because apart from 19/20 Jack is injured about 30% of each season. Other than that we were fairly lucky with injuries (Wes was already out for the season). With a light squad you are basically aiming for Europe without the required tools for a long season. Why not have the tools and act like a European level team so you have a chance of getting a European place. You are hoping to overachieve in getting a European place using a light squad, I’m trying to achieve a reasonable goal of a European place with a strong squad. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 27 minutes ago, jacketspuds said: This guy would probably not mind playing backup to Watkins. I think the yoof of today call that a thicc forward rather than a wide one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, nick76 said: If we are lucky with injuries? Great plan that! Barely any team in football let alone any sport buys top level backup in case of injuries. Spurs have never covered Kane getting injured. Silly exceptions like Man City Chelsea, and even Manure who've spent over a billion in transfer fees in a decade aren't relevant to us. We're not at that level yet, don't have Europe, and FFP is a factor Edited June 27, 2021 by Kiwivillan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 1 hour ago, MentalM said: I am curious to the rumoured Grealish move, will it halt the recruitment until its solved with a new contract? Many of our targets are probably being convinced by Grealish staying and would now await the situation. Yeh, it probably will. The club need to make sure this doesn’t destabilise our plans this Summer. Jack owes it to the club to let them know his intentions. If the club offer him a massive contract, which I’m sure they’re in the process of doing, he needs to either sign it or tell them he wants to go. Unfortunately - agents. Jack’s agent will be trying to make as much money for himself as possible and that is always the issue with high profile players. Either way, I hope this is sorted as soon as England are knocked out of the Euro’s (Wednesday). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Kiwivillan said: Barely any team in football let alone any sport buys top level backup in case of injuries. Spurs have never covered Kane getting injured. Silly exceptions like Man City Chelsea, and even Manure who've spent over a billion in transfer fees in a decade aren't relevant to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 So moving forward as a club our only options are to sign Tammy Abraham or to not sign anyone else at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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