Summer transfer window 2021

[sne]

8 minutes ago, daggy_333 said:

As much as I want to agree, if Jack hadn't been injured for 1/3 of last season you would think we would have picked up enough points to at least make the Uefa Conference League next season surely?

Yeah we might make that new Conference Cup, especially if some English clubs win the CL and Europa League.

Not sure that cup would keep Grealish at the club if he's only staying for European football (not sure what that claim is based on)

 

[DaveAV1]

12 minutes ago, nick76 said:

1) You're assuming we are actually after Alvarez

2) That he can settle very quickly which players like that rarely do in this league

3) That he's at the level now that he can be a difference maker at this level.

I think at best this kid would be long term project that we blend into the team over the coming 12-18 months.

 

My issue is we need Europe qualification next season, to continue to progress and to keep Jack.  We need players to fit now as well, and it looks like neither ESR or JWP are coming to us.  I still think a striker is a priority.  We also have to get quality when we can get quality.  As somebody said if we dont get ESR, which looks unlikely who is similar to him that has this level.  It's incredibly hard to find.  You either get a lower league player which is a risk or a foreign player which is a risk.  I'm happy to take risks but like the young Argentinian lad, we have to incorporate some calm because the likely odds is that these players wont settle straight away from South America or maybe even the Continent, they take time.  Lower leagues obviously will settle straight away but they arent any at ESR's level.  I think Tammy is a great price, quality fit, we know him and he provides great competition and goals, and I think is a priority acquisition.

Again I don’t disagree but to answer your points. I think we may be in for Alvarez but the point is that he’s the type of player, it could easily be someone else. 
 

Secondly I described Alvarez as a developing player at a higher level, so I’m not expecting him to hit the ground running. As such he should be able to offer variations to our strike force as well as back up if required and hope that in time he becomes a starter. 
 

I don’t think that he’s at that level now but we may be pleasantly surprised. As a more reasonably priced alternative to Tammy that covers more than one position I think he’s attractive to us on the face of things. I honestly don’t know, how could I? But we have a very good recruitment team now that won’t just be guessing. They could have any number of alternatives in the pipeline. 

I’m honestly not sure if we can make Tammy fit for a number of reasons but I’m not making the decision. 

[DaveAV1]

8 minutes ago, nick76 said:

In your view.  if the rumours of Tammy are true then Dean disagrees with you.  We'll just have to wait and see....and the rumour could be BS but we tried to sign both Wilson and Ollie last season and it wasnt either/or.  We were trying to buy both to have both and they are both central strikers.  I'm assuming you arent going to tell me that if we had brought Wilson we wouldnt have brought Ollie or vice versa, we were deadly serious about signing both.

Yes but apparently we pulled out of the deal for Wilson because of cost. Not that we couldn’t afford him but we thought his wages were too high. Tammy’s won’t be less. 

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, sne said:

Ignoring all the rest because you clearly feel strongly about it. Why Tammy, why not someone else? Why is a very expensive, high wages player in a position we already have have a given starter the only way for us to move forward? Him or we the whole "project" fails? Why?

First of all, I'm a big fan of Tammy, I cant deny that.  I think he'd be perfect for us.

Anyway that aside

It wasnt about Tammy, for me it's about needing another goalscorer.  In my life I've always grown up and believed (rightly or wrongly) that the two key positions in a club is a GK and a goalscorer.  They are the difference makers to any club, the guy who can get you point by keeping the ball out of the next can be the difference between second and the title.  I think Martinez has made a world of difference to our defence both in talent and also the defenders are calming knowing he's behind them.  A goalscorer, whether a central striker, inside forward or wide forward is gold because so many games are on a knife edge that one chance can make that difference and you need a player to put it away.  Scoring goals is very hard at the elite level hence why generally the top earners are forwards.  Even top players find it hard to score goals but you get a goal scorer and they can add to your points at the end of the second over an average goalscorer.  Yes I know about creative players and the Jack's of this world and then the VVD of this world that make the difference as well but this is my view.

At Villa we currently only have one goal scorer in Ollie (Wes is unknown, Davis out of favour and I'll put here Traore for a Kiwivillan shout out).  I honestly think we need another one.  I thought last season we were very lucky and could easily done a Wolves if Ollie had got injured, ended up in an area of relegation battle.  Imagine not having Jack and Ollie last season....scary.  So I've always thought we needed competition up top for competition, form, suspensions and injuried.

Why Tammy?  We've seen what other clubs have done with 40m with the likes of Joelinton as an example.  We know Tammy is a goalscorer, some argue he misses too many chances but we still know he's a goalscorer.  He fits in at Villa because he's been here and knows a lot of the players and we know he suits our style.  He's 23 so even if he doesnt work out in two years time he has value.  He wants to prove himself as well.  He's played at a top club so understands pressures.  His wages arent that high, he earns £58k per week.  I mean we are just about to pay Jack i would guess £200k+ a week.  The reason why Tammy then is that he's not a risk in the slightest, he's young, he has the right attitude he already fits in the club, the fans love him, he's proven which for a 23 year old is awesome.  He's about our level and I'm sure he'd love to come here.

Tell me another player that's at the same risk level, wages, experience, proven etc etc then great but for me he ticks all the categories.  Yes signing a Argentinian for £15-20m sounds sexy but settling in, will he fit, how does he step up to this level...there are so many rsiks and unknowns.  He could be a wonderkid and take the league by storm but he could completely flop and the odds are the latter based on the history of the league.

I'm happy to get a quality striker in whoever they are I think we need competition, I wouldve been happy with Giroud when we were after him but I'm not sure he wouldve fitted our style, Callum Wilson was fine last season when we were after both him and Ollie and it wasnt either/or, we wanted both.  I just think Tammy makes sense at this point but from the reaction I've got it seems from above a lot of people dont either because he's perceived as too expensive (which blows my mind for a 23 yr old proven striker), he's not a priority or some other reason.

I think I'm done on Tammy conversation.  I want him, I think we need him, it's a priority for me and I hope the rumours are true and we sign him.  Others will disagree, but I think I've debated my point enough!

[Hank Scorpio]

If we want another striker who can play in the same vein as Watkins, I am not sure that Abraham is the right player. He does not press and harass from the front the way Watkins does. That's why this makes little sense to me (ignoring the cost). Yes of course he has lots of other good qualities but I am not sure those match with the way we have played the past season.

[nick76]

12 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Yes but apparently we pulled out of the deal for Wilson because of cost. Not that we couldn’t afford him but we thought his wages were too high. Tammy’s won’t be less. 

I never heard that about Wilson's salary that we pulled out because of that, he only earns £46k per week at Newcastle, which is within our budget.  All i heard was he thought Newcastle was a better placed to progress further up the league than us especially as we just avoided relegation.  Look how that turned out for him at Newcastle   cant see it was wages though mate

[nick76]

Just now, Pissflaps said:

If we want another striker who can play in the same vein as Watkins, I am not sure that Abraham is the right player. He does not press and harass from the front the way Watkins does. That's why this makes little sense to me (ignoring the cost). Yes of course he has lots of other good qualities but I am not sure those match with the way we have played the past season.

why would you have the same as Ollie, you want an alternative, something slightly different.  You dont want a copy .  We also know he fits our play because Smith plays the same way as when Tammy played for us and he did alright then even if it was in the Championship and it worked then.

[sne]

I absolutely think we need a new striker, I just don't see that being someone who costs £40m at the very least and who's already on very high wages playing for a high profile PL side and who's apparently unhappy with his playing time.

Edouard, Alvarez, Nmecha and so on makes sense for me from both a financial and squad sense. Tammy honestly doesn't. I liked him as a player so it's not a personal thing.

[nick76]

Anyway I'm done for a bit on this, I've taken up too much of the conversation on this, I'll let others debate for a bit

 

p.s.  Tammy for Villa 

[Hank Scorpio]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

why would you have the same as Ollie, you want an alternative, something slightly different.  You dont want a copy .  We also know he fits our play because Smith plays the same way as when Tammy played for us and he did alright then even if it was in the Championship and it worked then.

Tactical consistency? Also we don't play tye same way as we did the championship now in my opinion.

[nick76]

1 minute ago, sne said:

who's already on very high wages

he's on £58k per week...that isnt very high wages in the PL....jesus!!!  We are just about to offer Jack over £200k+ a week

[MotoMkali]

31 minutes ago, nick76 said:

In your view.  if the rumours of Tammy are true then Dean disagrees with you.  We'll just have to wait and see....and the rumour could be BS but we tried to sign both Wilson and Ollie last season and it wasnt either/or.  We were trying to buy both to have both and they are both central strikers.  I'm assuming you arent going to tell me that if we had brought Wilson we wouldnt have brought Ollie or vice versa, we were deadly serious about signing both.

The rumours aren't true though. So it doesn't matter. 

Wilson can play outwide though he has the pace for it. And he also wouldn't cost 40 **** million like tammy would. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by MotoMkali

[dont_do_it_doug.]

There's a team pretty much every season who break the top 6/7 and qualify for a European competition. There have been a succession of them, even going all the way back to Ipswich 20 years ago. Most recently we have Leicester breaking the monopoly entirely, Wolves and West Ham qualifying for the Europa league through the league. And then every summer there's a fan or two out there saying "yeah but, not next season".

I get how daunting it might seem on paper, but evidence suggests it's nowhere near as 'impossible' as Sky would have you think. 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, Pissflaps said:

Tactical consistency? Also we don't play tye same way as we did the championship now in my opinion.

ok, whatever.......I give up!

I give up, only me that wants Tammy for £40m plus £60k a week wages, thinks that's a good deal.  I seem to be very outnumbered today, if that's a reflection of the fans then so be it.

[M_Afro]

Tammy is not coming to villa without assurances that he is going to play every week, which we won’t give him. Anybody willing to pay £40m for him is fully having their pants pulled down. Add to that the fact that that he is unsuited to our favoured style of play and what you have is a few bits of unfounded click bait rubbish. 

[Philosopher]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

ok, whatever.......I give up!

I give up, only me that wants Tammy for £40m plus £60k a week wages, thinks that's a good deal.  I seem to be very outnumbered today, if that's a reflection of the fans then so be it.

Tammy is on 82k per week apparently, he would probably be looking for a pay rise too. Tammy is only a good deal for a team in desperate need for a goalscorer.

[sne]

Just now, nick76 said:

ok, whatever.......I give up!

I give up, only me that wants Tammy for £40m plus £60k a week wages, thinks that's a good deal.  I seem to be very outnumbered today, if that's a reflection of the fans then so be it.

You think Tammy and his agent would settle for a £2k increase in wages? 

I'm guessing it would be more along the lines of £50m + £130k in wages.

Anyway since you are done debating Tammy we'll just have to wait and see. Sure he'd do a fine job if we signed him.

[Hank Scorpio]

1 minute ago, Philosopher said:

Tammy is on 82k per week apparently, he would probably be looking for a pay rise too. Tammy is only a good deal for a team in desperate need for a goalscorer.

I think when people have their heart set on something they become blind to logic and reason.

Hence Abraham wouldn't be the best signing we could make for style of play for a start.

[DCJonah]

I'm genuinely at a point where whatever we do this summer has my full backing until its proved to have been a wrong decision. 

That way of thinking doesn't really contribute to a discussion but I genuinely don't care or worry about it at all. 

It's quite a nice place to be. Haven't felt this way about a window for a long time.

[nick76]

11 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

The rumours aren't true though. So it doesn't matter. 

Wilson can play outwide though he has the pace for it. And he also wouldn't cost 40 **** million like tammy would. 

You cant say factually the rumours arent true.  You are just guessing like the rest of us so you are being disingenuous in that comment. 

Wilson has played 254 out of 257 as a striker, so dont try and fit moving position into your narrative because it isnt true and unknown about playing our wide.  You are just asserting that because he has pace.  Wilson is a striker, end of! 

Wilson is 29 years old, no resell value and hasnt played at the top end of the table.  Tammy has played at the top end of the table, load of experience and only 23 years old so has plenty of resell value if he didnt work out here in a couple of years time thus has a value of 40m.