Summer transfer window 2021

[Cosmik Debris]

2 hours ago, MentalM said:

I am curious to the rumoured Grealish move, will it halt the recruitment until its solved with a new contract? Many of our targets are probably being convinced by Grealish staying and would now await the situation.

This is a good point well made.. I suppose the players that we really want are the ones that fully buy in to what are doing and take our word that Jack is not being sold without him signing a new contract, or understand that even without him we are a seriously run club that can upset the sky 6 ( and Leicester ).

It’s not that I would call players mercenary’s for wanting to play with Jack but we are clearly building towards a team that will challenge on all fronts and can play exciting football in front of real fans.

 

[Steero113]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I’m starting think some fans on here don’t want to progress.  I’m sure I’m going to be told they are being realistic and I’m not but I’m not asking to spend 200m, I seem to be at the same levels as most on here but all I keep hearing is let’s by back up this and that.  

Our best team ended up 11th with only really Jack out for a third of the season.  I know we’ve brought Young but really as a first XI player we’ve only brought Buendia.  Our team needs a lot more quality to be a European team not just back ups but squad depth and depth has to be alternatives not back ups.

Thank god our owners ‘seem’ to have more ambition than some on here.

"Only really one of the top 10 players in the world out for a third of the season". 

Difference between 5th and 11th quite literally. 

Agree on other points though, our owners seem to have the right ambition ceiling moving forward to keep Jack and make year-on-year progress. 

[Kiwivillan]

3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I’m starting think some fans on here don’t want to progress.  I’m sure I’m going to be told they are being realistic and I’m not but I’m not asking to spend 200m, I seem to be at the same levels as most on here but all I keep hearing is let’s by back up this and that.  

Our best team ended up 11th with only really Jack out for a third of the season.  I know we’ve brought Young but really as a first XI player we’ve only brought Buendia.  Our team needs a lot more quality to be a European team not just back ups but squad depth and depth has to be alternatives not back ups.

Thank god our owners ‘seem’ to have more ambition than some on here.

Some fans rate players like Traore more than others certainly more than some big names like Moura and Bergwijn from Spurs. Just checked 4 goals and 7 assists between the 2 of them last season

 

[DaveAV1]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I’m starting think some fans on here don’t want to progress.  I’m sure I’m going to be told they are being realistic and I’m not but I’m not asking to spend 200m, I seem to be at the same levels as most on here but all I keep hearing is let’s by back up this and that.  

Our best team ended up 11th with only really Jack out for a third of the season.  I know we’ve brought Young but really as a first XI player we’ve only brought Buendia.  Our team needs a lot more quality to be a European team not just back ups but squad depth and depth has to be alternatives not back ups.

Thank god our owners ‘seem’ to have more ambition than some on here.

I agree with your point about progress Nick but I don’t think Tammy fits. The young Argentinian lad covers winger and striker and is a developer but on a high level. Someone like that works for us. I think JWP works too and the club seem to be prioritising a CDM. Add ESR, perhaps ambitious but again fits us and we’ve got a team to really push on. 

[sne]

Just now, nick76 said:

I’m starting think some fans on here don’t want to progress.  I’m sure I’m going to be told they are being realistic and I’m not but I’m not asking to spend 200m, I seem to be at the same levels as most on here but all I keep hearing is let’s by back up this and that.  

Our best team ended up 11th with only really Jack out for a third of the season.  I know we’ve brought Young but really as a first XI player we’ve only brought Buendia.  Our team needs a lot more quality to be a European team not just back ups but squad depth and depth has to be alternatives not back ups.

Thank god our owners ‘seem’ to have more ambition than some on here.

Pretty sure everyone agrees with most of that, but signing Tammy for a club record sum to "add competition" to a position where we already have someone who is a certain starter isn't realistic or smart since we have other needs too.

It's not about ambition it's about being realistic and smart. If we are changing formation to say a 3-5-2 then having another established striker like Tammy makes sense. But if not then we are not spending that kind of money on a rotation player. Rich owners and all you still have to look at the massive difference in turnover between us and the top 6-7 clubs. 

A season or 2 more of steady progress and smart dealings and we might buy squad players valued at £40m-£50m to hang around. Not yet thou.

[pete101]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Oh so you don’t agree, great! All these clubs have far greater depth in the squad than we do.  Spurs alone had attackers Kane, Son, Vinicius, Bale, Moura, Bergwijn and Lamela in the advanced positions.  You can argue all want around positions but those were their squad attacking line up.  So your “barely any team” is bogus.  You can do the same for other teams…Arsenal..Aubameyang, Lacazette, Nkeitah just in the centre forward position alone they can play.

How do you aim for Europe if you don’t have the tools to get there.  Hoping to overachieve with a small squad is likely to fail.  

You want to get European qualification and then buy players to be a European qualification team.  I want to buy a European qualification level team to get a European place.

We have different strategies and both think we are right.  It’s not up to us but I think the club are going my direction than yours.

The club's you mentioned are being run into the ground, need to be smart and calculated with our transfer business, yes investment is needed but you don't throw a load of cash to solve problems that don't exist, 

For example spurs like who you mentioned have serious problems at CB and they go bring bale at start of last season to sit on bench, it was insanity.

 

[MotoMkali]

2 hours ago, nick76 said:

but if you looked at Harry Kane's heatmap he looked like a Attacking Midfielder.

It's going to be hard to convince you and @MotoMkalibut that's fine.  Strikers, attackers, wide forwards they all play as Forwards in modern day football.  I suppose Salah isnt a striker but he definitely is a forward and as 'Useless' pointed out about many forward players.  Modern football is about that fluidity upfront and if Son was purely a winger or AML he wouldnt have scored so many or the type goals he did this season. 

Yes but is irrelevant to the general point about signing Tammy. He is a pure striker as is Watkins. If we are to sign another backup striker they will be equally comfortable playing out wide as they are up front. 

[nick76]

29 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

"Only really one of the top 10 players in the world out for a third of the season". 

Difference between 5th and 11th quite literally. 

Agree on other points though, our owners seem to have the right ambition ceiling moving forward to keep Jack and make year-on-year progress. 

Problem is that apart from 19/20 Jack is out that much every season for four seasons out of five.  Maybe we are lucky next season and have a whole season but it's not a risk to take in my opinion

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jack-grealish/verletzungen/spieler/203460

[nick76]

33 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Some fans rate players like Traore more than others certainly more than some big names like Moura and Bergwijn from Spurs. Just checked 4 goals and 7 assists between the 2 of them last season

You may have a point. 

Forgetting Moura and Bergwijn for a second I am totally in love with Traore one minute and want to kill him the next minute probably about 30 times during a Villa match every game.  Then as a whole, his stats look really good and then his tracking back is awful and when he does he isnt focusing.  I cant make up my mind with him at all.  Sometimes I see those tricks and just are amazed and then I see Matty Cash completely exposed because Traore has left his man and Cash is defending against two players.

Back to the Spurs players.  I honestly feel that Spurs have more quality and depth than we have, Arsenal the same and these are the teams that we have to pass to get a European place.  Currently we lose Jack, we lose our attacking threat completely.  Buendia will help with that, another season settle Traore will help with that...I think we need more though.

[zab6359]

9 hours ago, KMitch said:

Uhh...  Inter just won Serie A with a 2 man strike partnership of Lukaku & Martinez.  Conte plays a 3-5-2.

 

Not a system Smith would ever play though.

[nick76]

36 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I agree with your point about progress Nick but I don’t think Tammy fits. The young Argentinian lad covers winger and striker and is a developer but on a high level. Someone like that works for us. I think JWP works too and the club seem to be prioritising a CDM. Add ESR, perhaps ambitious but again fits us and we’ve got a team to really push on. 

1) You're assuming we are actually after Alvarez

2) That he can settle very quickly which players like that rarely do in this league

3) That he's at the level now that he can be a difference maker at this level.

I think at best this kid would be long term project that we blend into the team over the coming 12-18 months.

 

My issue is we need Europe qualification next season, to continue to progress and to keep Jack.  We need players to fit now as well, and it looks like neither ESR or JWP are coming to us.  I still think a striker is a priority.  We also have to get quality when we can get quality.  As somebody said if we dont get ESR, which looks unlikely who is similar to him that has this level.  It's incredibly hard to find.  You either get a lower league player which is a risk or a foreign player which is a risk.  I'm happy to take risks but like the young Argentinian lad, we have to incorporate some calm because the likely odds is that these players wont settle straight away from South America or maybe even the Continent, they take time.  Lower leagues obviously will settle straight away but they arent any at ESR's level.  I think Tammy is a great price, quality fit, we know him and he provides great competition and goals, and I think is a priority acquisition.

[sne]

1 minute ago, zab6359 said:

Not a system Smith would ever play though.

Fwiw I'd be happy for us to have 3-5-2 as a plan B system. Would need us to sign another attacker and a quality CB but other than that we have the players needed and possibly suited to it.

[sne]

I don't think there is a snowballs chance in h**l we'll qualify for Europe through the league next season. Never know with cups but I'd be surprised.

Would need some of established top clubs to fail even worse than they did this season, and there is always a chance, but I'm also not sure we can hope to make strong and steady progress every season. It takes time.

[daggy_333]

1 minute ago, sne said:

I don't think there is a snowballs chance in h**l we'll qualify for Europe through the league next season. Never know with cups but I'd be surprised.

Would need some of established top clubs to fail even worse than they did this season, and there is always a chance, but I'm also not sure we can hope to make strong and steady progress every season. It takes time.

As much as I want to agree, if Jack hadn't been injured for 1/3 of last season you would think we would have picked up enough points to at least make the Uefa Conference League next season surely?

[nick76]

40 minutes ago, sne said:

Pretty sure everyone agrees with most of that, but signing Tammy for a club record sum to "add competition" to a position where we already have someone who is a certain starter isn't realistic or smart since we have other needs too.

It's not about ambition it's about being realistic and smart. If we are changing formation to say a 3-5-2 then having another established striker like Tammy makes sense. But if not then we are not spending that kind of money on a rotation player. Rich owners and all you still have to look at the massive difference in turnover between us and the top 6-7 clubs. 

A season or 2 more of steady progress and smart dealings and we might buy squad players valued at £40m-£50m to hang around. Not yet thou.

Then we arent going to get Europe.

Quote

It's not about ambition it's about being realistic and smart

Just because you say it's realistic and smart, doesnt make it so.  I think it's being unrealistic and not smart, aiming for Europe without the necessary tools. 
 

Quote

A season or 2 more of steady progress and smart dealings

Well there goes Jack then, there goes the project.  you really think the owners, from everything we have heard, they want European football.  You steady progress over the next couple of years wont get us that until 3 years time.  Jack will be gone, most like somebody will come after the likes of Konsa and Watkins.

 

As for Ollie, I agree but what if something happens to him we dont have a striker!!!!!!!!!!!  We dont know how Wes will come back, Davis is on the outside...without even thinking of options if Ollie is fit, if he gets injured then we are buggered.  Not only that but for some parts of the second half of the season Ollie looked knackered.  Not only that if it isnt working in a game, we need options on the bench.  (I'm going to say it again) Not only that, Tammy and Ollie fighting for shirt if we only play with one striker which isnt certain, will make them both better.  You put "add competition" in quotes to make it sound bad, it's the complete opposite, if we dont have a striker scoring goals our progression will be halted.

I'm obviously not going to convince you but with the rumours, hopefully Dean is on the same page and we sign tammy.

[Kiwivillan]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

I don't think there is a snowballs chance in h**l we'll qualify for Europe through the league next season.

Really? I'm optimistic assuming Grealish stays 

[sne]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Then we arent going to get Europe.

Just because you say it's realistic and smart, doesnt make it so.  I think it's being unrealistic and not smart, aiming for Europe without the necessary tools. 
 

Well there goes Jack then, there goes the project.  you really think the owners, from everything we have heard, they want European football.  You steady progress over the next couple of years wont get us that until 3 years time.  Jack will be gone, most like somebody will come after the likes of Konsa and Watkins.

 

As for Ollie, I agree but what if something happens to him we dont have a striker!!!!!!!!!!!  We dont know how Wes will come back, Davis is on the outside...without even thinking of options if Ollie is fit, if he gets injured then we are buggered.  Not only that but for some parts of the second half of the season Ollie looked knackered.  Not only that if it isnt working in a game, we need options on the bench.  (I'm going to say it again) Not only that, Tammy and Ollie fighting for shirt if we only play with one striker which isnt certain, will make them both better.  You put "add competition" in quotes to make it sound bad, it's the complete opposite, if we dont have a striker scoring goals our progression will be halted.

I'm obviously not going to convince you but with the rumours, hopefully Dean is on the same page and we sign tammy.

Ignoring all the rest because you clearly feel strongly about it. Why Tammy, why not someone else? Why is a very expensive, high wages player in a position we already have have a given starter the only way for us to move forward? Him or we the whole "project" fails? Why?

[nick76]

38 minutes ago, pete101 said:

The club's you mentioned are being run into the ground, need to be smart and calculated with our transfer business, yes investment is needed but you don't throw a load of cash to solve problems that don't exist, 

For example spurs like who you mentioned have serious problems at CB and they go bring bale at start of last season to sit on bench, it was insanity.

I think it is a problem that exists.  If Ollie gets injured we dont have appropriate cover.  Not that I'm saying that Tammy is cover.  You may say that Ollie has a great record so the problem of injury doesnt exist but I believe it's a problem as I did last season because it's the biggest risk outside of Jack getting injured.  If Ollie gets injured we dont have a fit recognised striker.  Wes we dont know about, Davis is out of favour.  It's a problem because if something happens to Ollie we dont have a replacement, and aside from the GK that's the one place that truly hard to cover.  Defenders can cover positions like Konsa at right back, Midfielders can cover each other and same with wingers....yes not as effectively but losing somebody that can score goals is so hard to replace as Wolves found out last season and killed their season before it started.

Again I'm not saying Tammy is a back up, I was just explaining one reason above why I think it is a major problem that exists.

[zab6359]

13 minutes ago, sne said:

Fwiw I'd be happy for us to have 3-5-2 as a plan B system. Would need us to sign another attacker and a quality CB but other than that we have the players needed and possibly suited to it.

Certainly not against it as a plan B just can't see it happening. Agreed we would need another attacker, in that type of set up Tammy would fit perfectly along side Ollie, I also think Hause would be fine in the 3 right now.

[nick76]

41 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Yes but is irrelevant to the general point about signing Tammy. He is a pure striker as is Watkins. If we are to sign another backup striker they will be equally comfortable playing out wide as they are up front. 

In your view.  if the rumours of Tammy are true then Dean disagrees with you.  We'll just have to wait and see....and the rumour could be BS but we tried to sign both Wilson and Ollie last season and it wasnt either/or.  We were trying to buy both to have both and they are both central strikers.  I'm assuming you arent going to tell me that if we had brought Wilson we wouldnt have brought Ollie or vice versa, we were deadly serious about signing both.