dont_do_it_doug. Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Interesting. They have clearly seen enough for the U23's alone to give him the nod. I feel like we should follow their lead. The City game is an ideal time, for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2019 I'm finding the buy-back thing is making it hard for me to really take to him as a Villa player. Even with players on loan last season I felt ok as I knew the score, but the uncertainty with Luiz is, I dunno, weird. Quote "We have an option to get him back but sometimes life is like this. We wanted him because last season we had problems in that position because we didn’t buy a holding midfielder. "We wanted him before so we thought about it but the rules with the work permit meant it was not possible. I thought he would be here with the pre-season he played last year in the States, he was really good. I think he had the quality to play with us but he could not do it. "The talent is always there, we’ll see at the end of the season what his level is but the quality is always there." https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-city-news-douglas-luiz-17147233 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Just now, NurembergVillan said: I'm finding the buy-back thing is making it hard for me to really take to him as a Villa player. Even with players on loan last season I felt ok as I knew the score, but the uncertainty with Luiz is, I dunno, weird. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-city-news-douglas-luiz-17147233 I've got you. In my head he is a loan player whom we get a shit ton of money for developing, or lumbered with if he is naff, until somebody categorically states otherwise. I think if he just has an OK season but the talent is still obviously there, which it is, they will buy him back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: I'm finding the buy-back thing is making it hard for me to really take to him as a Villa player. Even with players on loan last season I felt ok as I knew the score, but the uncertainty with Luiz is, I dunno, weird. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-city-news-douglas-luiz-17147233 I think the reassuring thing as that they've addressed that position this summer and no longer need Douglas as much they did last season like Pep said. It sounds like he wanted to him to slot in and develop in that role last season, but couldn't for obvious reasons. Then he went and bough Rodri instead, and from his tone and body language (I saw that part of the presser), the Douglas Luiz ship has sailed and they've moved on. Unless he becomes a world beater by the end of the season and they're forced to take a look at it, I think we don't have much to worry about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I trust what Pep says less than Boris Johnson to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted October 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: 9 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: I'm finding the buy-back thing is making it hard for me to really take to him as a Villa player. Even with players on loan last season I felt ok as I knew the score, but the uncertainty with Luiz is, I dunno, weird. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-city-news-douglas-luiz-17147233 I've got you. In my head he is a loan player whom we get a shit ton of money for developing, or lumbered with if he is naff, until somebody categorically states otherwise. I think if he just has an OK season but the talent is still obviously there, which it is, they will buy him back. Yep I'm in the same boat. The way I've 'justified' it (for want of a better word) in my head is that this season has first and foremost always been about survival for Villa. So with that in mind, if we get a season out of him where he has helped us to stay up through his contribution, putting us in a position where we can then purchase from a position of strength next season, and he ends up gong 'back' to City then I think we will have used him correctly. We went into this with our eyes wide open, and while it'll be a bit shit if we end up having to send him back, it will in all likelyhood be in a scenario where he has been fantastic, we've stayed up and we're in a much better place because of it all 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted October 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2019 On 12/07/2019 at 11:48, BOF said: The one glaring loophohle that I hate in these situations is market value versus buyback fee. If, at any point during his time at Villa, his value on the open market exceeds his buyback fee, then City have reason to trigger the clause regardless of whether they want him in their team or not. Because they could take him back solely to sell him straight away for a guaranteed profit. It's why I think there should be a condition attached to buyback clauses that once the player is bought back, he cannot move to another club for a calendar year so as to prevent the 'flipping' of players for profit. I also think this bears repeating. I'm more nervous of this than of City wanting him, because the above is a much simpler criteria for him to meet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuffolkVillan Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, BOF said: Has just been called up to the full Brazil squad. Shout out for VillaChris who called this a few days ago. Lottery numbers Chris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, BOF said: I also think this bears repeating. I'm more nervous of this than of City wanting him, because the above is a much simpler criteria for him to meet. Whilst I don’t disagree with this, in that it could become a straight business decision, it must be remembered that the player has some influence on this. He may be happy to stay here and whilst he may be happy with a move to Man City, I’d imagine he’d be less happy to be used as a commodity and merely sold on. I think that if that situation arose then there would be an agreement between us and Man City whereby we paid the difference between his buyout clause price and a reasonable market valuation at the time. Man City would also be aware that acting merely as a player dealer could possibly effect their chances of doing similar deals in future. Using the clause as a hedge against possibly losing a potential first team player is one thing, but using it as a business tool would, I imagine, be viewed in a less favourable light by players and clubs in the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted October 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 minute ago, DaveAV1 said: Whilst I don’t disagree with this, in that it could become a straight business decision, it must be remembered that the player has some influence on this. He may be happy to stay here and whilst he may be happy with a move to Man City, I’d imagine he’d be less happy to be used as a commodity and merely sold on. I think that if that situation arose then there would be an agreement between us and Man City whereby we paid the difference between his buyout clause price and a reasonable market valuation at the time. Man City would also be aware that acting merely as a player dealer could possibly effect their chances of doing similar deals in future. Using the clause as a hedge against possibly losing a potential first team player is one thing, but using it as a business tool would, I imagine, be viewed in a less favourable light by players and clubs in the future. Good post and I can't argue with the reasoning. I hope you're right, and it does make sense. I'm a little less nervous about that scenario now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said: I'm finding the buy-back thing is making it hard for me to really take to him as a Villa player. Even with players on loan last season I felt ok as I knew the score, but the uncertainty with Luiz is, I dunno, weird. Spin it another way, city wanted to keep him because they know what a talent he is, this clause was the only way they'd let him go In modern football if he went on to be a World beater then he would be on his way out of the club regardless, the only difference is city will get a share of the profit on him (I don't think he'll ever make citys team, the risk is they flip him) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 He can't get in our side as a regular at the moment, so I don't think City are going to have much luck buying him and then selling him on for much of a profit, bearing mind they already invested £15m in him when they bought him from Vasco De Gama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMelvillan Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Rds1983 said: And yet hourihane didn't make a rubbish Ireland team last week. Football is odd sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I have no problem with this as we are going to make a huge profit on him - if city come in and haven't got a minimum fee e.g 30m. I think if luiz goes in the summer we will attempt to go for Phillips to replace him if Leeds don't come up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Yea there’s more to this than what has been let out. He’s a quality player. Essentially I see it as though we are doing city a favour for a season, and we can make a few mill in the process. Money which, If we are relegated, would be welcome. Btw, I reckon he should start tomorrow ahead of Hourihane. Not saying Connor has played badly - I just think Luiz has something to prove with this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Brazil must be really struggling at the moment. Has the potential to be a good player, but in a villa shirt has not shown enough to make a full international yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Why would Luiz sign for City if they are just going to sell him on. Because if he becomes a quality player at the end of this season but not good enough to beat out rodri or fernandinho why would he sign for them. There is no way he agreed to that contract if he was forced into a contract with City if he didn't want to be. Presumably a contract that equals his current value and not his future one. There is simply no chance of that so unless City intend to play him he won't rejoin them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 2 hours ago, BOF said: I also think this bears repeating. I'm more nervous of this than of City wanting him, because the above is a much simpler criteria for him to meet. It also bears repeating that this hinges on him wanting to leave us and being happy to do it in a way that makes Man City a bit of extra profit just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 On 11/10/2019 at 21:19, VillaChris said: He's Brazil under 23 captain isn't he? Might not be far off a call up for their main team in November given they'll have two more friendlies in that month, would be pretty cool to have a full Brazil international in our squad. Well it's happening. Think I said it on the Bjorn Engels thread that if we are to evolve into a top 6 club again over next 2-3 years we need players playing for the better international teams in the world. Also interesting that maybe others in this squad out of favour at the clubs might be interested in joining us. Actually looking at that Brazil squad, Lucas paqueta was massively rated this time last season but isn't playing much lately at AC Milan. David Neres did very well for Ajax last season but has been on the bench regularly this year. He's actually one who'd suit our profile, only 22 and can play centrally or out wide in the front 3. Hopefully Doug can have a word with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post terrytini Posted October 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 25, 2019 Hey concerned guys - any player could leave after a season. For me I just ignore the clause ( the detail of which we don’t know anyway) and treat him as a fully fledged Villa player. He isn’t on loan, so, he’s ours. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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