Keinan Davis

[MrBlack]

6 hours ago, Five Ken McNaughts said:

Really can’t see any reason for Davis to get any stick last night. Only made one error – a miscontrol that fell to a Villa player anyway. Apart from that he made an intelligent run to find space and put a tricky header wide, held off Bailly and saw his cross blocked for a corner, then outmuscled Maguire and reacted fastest to the ball dropping between them (one touch control, right foot to left foot, low hard shot, incredible block by Bailly). In fact, if Davis hadn’t been a bit LESS sharp with that final play we could easily have had a penalty as Maguire swung his boot wildly through the airspace where Keinan had already nicked the ball away. If anything, and not for the first time, I think the change of putting Davis down the middle and Watkins out wide could be made sooner when we are trailing and need to try something different.

Should have been brought in with more than 5 minutes left.  As if coming on to change a game doesn't add enough pressure, to do so with 5 minutes left is pressure anyone with a decent scoring record would struggle with. 

He needed game time, and we needed a change earlier in the match.   That 5 minutes gave us nothing, and didn't help Davis at all. Waste of time.

If we don't trust him, he needs shipping out (possibly on loan), and replacing.  Or we need to give him more time on the pitch.

If a time comes when we need to play him, and he's got zero match fitness and we're in trouble. Probably in trouble anyway, but would be exacerbated massively. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by MrBlack

[Risso]

He urgently needs a loan to the Championship, to a team where he's going to play every week. He's at the age now where 5 minute appearances as a sub aren't going to do anything for his development. He's a decent all round player, but as a striker he has one huge, glaring weakness.

[TrentVilla]

2 hours ago, Risso said:

He urgently needs a loan to the Championship, to a team where he's going to play every week. He's at the age now where 5 minute appearances as a sub aren't going to do anything for his development. He's a decent all round player, but as a striker he has one huge, glaring weakness.

That's a fair point. I doubt personally he would score goals in the Championship but its the right thing to do if he is to stand any chance of developing.

[a-k]

I want him to succeed and I do think some on here are over dismissive of his ability, but if we brought in a new striker in January then I think he will/should head out on loan.

[AndyM3000]

He's going to be 23 next month, it's getting a bit late to loan someone out for development reasons. He should have been loaned out last season but unfortunately our squad was in such a state we had to keep him around. He's in the same age bracket as Cash, Konsa and Luiz who are established first teamers. 

He has to be sold, if Smith think he might turn into a player then put a buy back clause in the deal.

[cheltenham_villa]

1 minute ago, AndyM3000 said:

He's going to be 23 next month, it's getting a bit late to loan someone out for development reasons. He should have been loaned out last season but unfortunately our squad was in such a state we had to keep him around. He's in the same age bracket as Cash, Konsa and Luiz who are established first teamers. 

He has to be sold, if Smith think he might turn into a player then put a buy back clause in the deal.

at this moment, hes an important squad player and our first change up front. Next season or the year after, he'll be blocking a youth players development opportunity. At that point id agree and look to move on. I dont expect a loan to tell us anything

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, a-k said:

I want him to succeed and I do think some on here are over dismissive of his ability, but if we brought in a new striker in January then I think he will/should head out on loan.

Over dismissive of his ability? Have you seen his scoring record?

If anything I think some on here an an too optimistic about his ability.

[TRO]

I think we all like Keinan and want him to do well....but.

To score goals you have to make runs and intelligence ( reading the play) is crucial as is the timing of the run.

The goal Son scored against Leeds where he watched the play of Kane and made the run, typifies what is required at this level.

you can hang around the goals in the lower leagues and make a fair living, but in this league you have to have your wits about you.....we see how Ollie is finding is more difficult too.

Keinan has not got a natural instinct for making such runs and I am unsure the championship would teach him that either, but its worth a try.

We need a player to challenge Ollie and one who can do the above disciplines.

[VillaChris]

Kienan just dosen't have it really TRO.

Think when he played Sheffield right after lockdown he got into some good scoring positions but he never times his jump right e.g. that early chance he headed over the bar after 10 minutes and then in second half El Ghazi hit a good paced cross in he was a yard away from connecting with.

It's always a yard short of scoring or not quite leaping in time to get the header on target. As I'm typing I'm reminded of the Arsenal chance when he timed the run well and shot at the correct time but again yard wide of the far post.

Just dosen't have that ruthless knack of wanting to score so badly as many of the top strikers do so you'd gamble on running in before the cross is even hit. Think Ollie has still a bit to go on that aspect aswell but it's lightyears difference between him and Davis.

Need to sit him down and stick on video of all the goals Darren Bent scored for us and see if he learns anything as he simply dosen't have that type of instinct in him I'm afraid currently.

Edited January 3, 2021 by VillaChris

[abdulaziz1]

I don’t understand why doesn’t he play more? 
Smith usually fears substitutions. I dont know why. People were writing El Ghazi and Traore off yet they kept scoring. It’s not about being loaned but it’s about trying something different. Watkins missed a lot of goals opportunities. 

[Davkaus]

18 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

That's a fair point. I doubt personally he would score goals in the Championship but its the right thing to do if he is to stand any chance of developing.

I agree with this. I think it'll make or break his career one way or another, but it has to be done, there's no point him sitting on the bench all seasons playing a few minutes here and there. 

I'd love him to score a bagfull, come back full of confidence, and ram my words down my throat, but I don't think he can cut it in the Championship either. One way to find out, though. 

[jackbauer24]

I keep hearing this idea of him going out on loan to the Championship... he's already had that with US!

In 17/18 he played for 1500mins (best part of 17 full matches) in which he scored two goals in a team that was fighting for promotion.

The following season, again in the Championship, he barely played despite being available for at least 17 matches (assuming unfit for all not in squad ones). So he wasn't trusted when we were in the Championship.

Last season he actually had 538 minutes in the Premier League spread across 18 games... and no goals.

He just doesn't score. He's not going to score at Championship level either!

Davis scored a goal every 827mins in the Championship, who's going to want to loan that?!

Davis is a type of player that doesn't exist anymore, the big target man is a position from a forgotten tactical age. But even when we had the Dublin (with Joachim) and Carew (with Young) they could finish themselves too. Even Heskey (with Gabby) scored a few for us.

I have nothing personal against the lad and his work ethic seems fine etc but I just don't get this eternal optimism for clearly really poor players... Luke Moore is even ten times the player Davis is!!

[KentVillan]

On 02/01/2021 at 01:23, HanoiVillan said:

We don't have 3 strikers in the squad, we have 2 plus maybe a hope that Traore could do a job there.

If Watkins got injured, we would be much weaker. I think it would be hard for us not to finish mid-table at this point (I suppose it depends exactly how 'mid-table' is defined) but our results would take a nose-dive and we would be living off our good start to the season (IMO of course).

Sure, but we've shown we can just about survive with Wesley / Samatta / Davis as our options.

With Barkley, Cash, Martinez in the team, you can easily see us doing well with Traore or Davis as stand in strikers in the event of a Watkins injury.

My point is I think Smith clearly would like more strike options, but (beyond signing Watkins) it wasn't an essential to improving on last season's performance. Plus Watkins has an excellent fitness record.

Edited January 3, 2021 by KentVillan

[Tommo_b]

4 hours ago, abdulaziz1 said:

I don’t understand why doesn’t he play more? 
Smith usually fears substitutions. I dont know why. People were writing El Ghazi and Traore off yet they kept scoring. It’s not about being loaned but it’s about trying something different. Watkins missed a lot of goals opportunities. 

You don’t understand?! 

[AndyM3000]

I actually don't think he's a bad player he's just not suited to Premier League teams in 2020 so it's not helping his game at all.

He can work well in a 4-4-2 or a 3-5-2 with a strike partner to play off him but I can't see us using either system anytime soon.

[Laughable Chimp]

5 hours ago, TRO said:

I think we all like Keinan and want him to do well....but.

To score goals you have to make runs and intelligence ( reading the play) is crucial as is the timing of the run.

The goal Son scored against Leeds where he watched the play of Kane and made the run, typifies what is required at this level.

you can hang around the goals in the lower leagues and make a fair living, but in this league you have to have your wits about you.....we see how Ollie is finding is more difficult too.

Keinan has not got a natural instinct for making such runs and I am unsure the championship would teach him that either, but its worth a try.

We need a player to challenge Ollie and one who can do the above disciplines.

I disagree. I think he's got the ability to get into good runs and be in good positions for chances. I think we can all remember several times last season where we banged our head against the wall due to a Keinan miss, but I think that's also implicit proof that he's at least getting into these positions in the first place.

I do think that he really needs a run of games at this point and a loan would be optimal. But we're simply far too light up front atm to afford to let Davis go.

[Vive_La_Villa]

If only he managed to score last kick of the game against Man U. Could have been a game changer for the lad. 

[VillaChris]

6 hours ago, Davkaus said:

I agree with this. I think it'll make or break his career one way or another, but it has to be done, there's no point him sitting on the bench all seasons playing a few minutes here and there. 

I'd love him to score a bagfull, come back full of confidence, and ram my words down my throat, but I don't think he can cut it in the Championship either. One way to find out, though. 

Wonder if he's a bit too comfortable aswell. Gets contract extensions pretty regularly despite playing little and dosen't strike me as the type who's banging down DS door wanting to play and if he can't here going out on loan to prove himself and play every week.

Could be wrong but reminds me of the Fonz staying here content to be back up while likes of Gabby and Weimann went out on loan a few times once they hit 19-20. Ultimately those two have stayed in the top 2 divisions, Fonz is in league 2 and isn't yet 30.

Edited January 3, 2021 by VillaChris

[VillaChris]

45 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If only he managed to score last kick of the game against Man U. Could have been a game changer for the lad. 

The shot was very tempting but if you watch the chance again we have a player unmarked 5 yards to his left.

I guess even a non scoring striker is also going to shoot in that situation but frustrating as it was a certain 2-2 if he'd looked up and rolled it.

[Kingman]

Loan him to someone like Albion or Sheffield United with the caveat "as long as he gets some miles on the clock"