VillaChris Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 4 hours ago, Wainy316 said: Fond memories from the lockdown season and where I thought we were going as a team but the goodwill has run out. Need him gone. Two years ago on Tuesday the 7-2 v Liverpool happened. I think it's pretty clear Ollie is never going to morph into a ruthless striker. As it happens I thought his all round game was decent today, especially first half but ultimately he's judged on the chances such as the one in last minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Spoony said: I thought he was overrated and absolutely not worth the money, I did not “know” that’s why we were throwing obscene money at a player with one (maybe two?) good championship seasons. I don’t mean that in an I’m right you’re wrong way, I just never thought this was a good signing and think it’s just another in a long line of throwing far too much at average players. Ultimately he's someone Dean have previously worked with and believed could scale up and in 20/21 he was spot on. 15 goals and some really good all round performances in games he didn't score in. Miles off that now and I think he's hit his ceiling at prem level so I think we'll look to cash in next summer as would assume he's got two years left on his deal unless he signed a new one end of his first season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted October 3, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 3, 2022 I love Watkins. His workrate is impressive and he keeps the defenders occupied. Great movement and the occasional goal or assist or... pass. He has his flaws, but he brings something Ings and Archer don't. Having said that - he was off it tonight. That was obvious in the first 45 and even more so after 10 minutes of the second. Missing opportunities is his fault - but 94 minutes of toil isn't. Should have been replaced almost immediately after Leeds went to 10 men - but I can't blame Watkins for that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Had an off night tonight. Other games this season he really has not had the chances. Not sure what striker outside the Big 6 I would take instead of him. Maybe a Danny Ings....oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 24 minutes ago, ozvillafan said: I love Watkins. His workrate is impressive and he keeps the defenders occupied. Great movement and the occasional goal or assist or... pass. He has his flaws, but he brings something Ings and Archer don't. Having said that - he was off it tonight. That was obvious in the first 45 and even more so after 10 minutes of the second. Missing opportunities is his fault - but 94 minutes of toil isn't. Should have been replaced almost immediately after Leeds went to 10 men - but I can't blame Watkins for that. Absolutely spot on. I was screaming at the screen about this. Get Buendia and Ings (or even Archer) on. Didn't need Watkins running around anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisvilla4 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Epitome of a confidence player who has none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 He's a player that works in a counter attacking sense, he harries and presses and can hold the ball up under pressure. He absolutely cannot play against a defence minded team. With time and space he's terrible and against these teams you need quick clever movement and good finishing, 2 things he doesn't have. The issue we have is our tactic is to lump the ball forward at every opportunity and he's the only striker that can do anything with that setup. Ings relies on build up play and runners behind him and Archer is a poacher who relies on good service. The only other striker who could possibly play the role that Watkins does is probably Davis. With a proper setup we could play Ings or Archer, with Gerrard the only striker that "works" is Watkins 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) With this manager, we take him out and we die. Our tactic is whacking it to the isolated striker. Ings won't get a kick. Archer might I suppose, untested v PL defenders and receiving whacks in his general direction. Edited October 3, 2022 by Tomaszk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 13 hours ago, Sulberto21 said: Lift the bastard ball you’ll have many more goals. doesnt seem capable, just not in his skill set. I think honestly, he gets a whiff of goal and his brain just reverts to ...... "SMASH IT". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cizzler Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 8 hours ago, nepal_villan said: Had an off night tonight. Other games this season he really has not had the chances. Not sure what striker outside the Big 6 I would take instead of him. Maybe a Danny Ings....oh wait. I'd take Isak, Toney and Mitrovic quite clearly. Probably would take Scamacca too on this season's form. DCL / Bamford are better strikers, just never fit. I suppose Ollie has that going for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV82 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 At this point we're simply asking too much of Watkins and the blame for that lies squarely on the manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeVillan Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 35 minutes ago, AV82 said: At this point we're simply asking too much of Watkins and the blame for that lies squarely on the manager. Not sure how you managed to come to this conclusion. I know you might be Gerrard out but you shouldn't let that cloud your judgment. Ollie was awful last night, the only thing I could say against SG there was he should've subbed him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, AV82 said: At this point we're simply asking too much of Watkins and the blame for that lies squarely on the manager. Perhaps some of the criticism is unfair including from myself. I always commend his workrate but he's been poor in the box for a long while now and its incredibly frustrating. Perhaps it wouldn't feel so bad if SG gave Archer a decent chance now and again. We need a goal scorer that is the bottom line though. Edited October 3, 2022 by birdman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, AV82 said: At this point we're simply asking too much of Watkins and the blame for that lies squarely on the manager. Asking a striker to be able to control a ball, or occasionally try to dink it over a keeper rather than hitting it straight at him every single time is asking too much? OK..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 5 hours ago, MaVilla said: doesnt seem capable, just not in his skill set. I think honestly, he gets a whiff of goal and his brain just reverts to ...... "SMASH IT". He didn’t even smash it yesterday just passed it into the keeper’s legs. had Watkins done his usual smash it he might have got a goal yesterday. Give Archer a run of ten games and I believe he’ll get at least 4 goals and an assist or two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) Clearly something has to change up top for us. You just cannot keep missing chances consistently at this level. It's such a shame as his all round pressing etc is amazing and he's a real handfull....aside from the scoring bit which is lets be honest, the bit which matters. It's not just the missed chances either, it's the poor touches & decisions which repeatedly stop a really good chance being created. Half of the reason he hasn't had more chances is because he himself messes up the situation which should create a chance either for himself or another player. How many times does he get found in a great position but then he's either on his heels when the pass comes or a yard short of reaching the cross (even though there is normally nothing wrong with the cross it's just that he didn't realise it quick enough or bust a gut to make sure he got there ahead of the defender). On other occasions he makes the wrong choice or his first touch destroys the opportunity. Another factor I think we are all forgetting is that he is now a few years as a premier League striker & the opposition have clearly done their homework on him. His most common manouvres from which he used to get a lot of goals have now been sussed out & largely nullified by our opponents but he seems to be really struggling to find new ways to score. It's like he is constantly being shown the side he's not comfortable with by the defender and is simply not adapting. There are so many things wrong with the key moments or actual goal scoring bit that I have to come to the conclusion that we simply need another option. There is Archer of course & I would like to see them as a two, surely it has to be worth a go especially in situations like we had at elland Road, On a final note I remember Fergie at Yanitid always used to change his strikers every 2-3 seasons, for the exact reason I believe that teams at this level do indeed suss you out and nullify you. I fear this is what has happened to Ollie. World class strikers of course are a different matter entirely because they have that ability to score from so many different scenarios that they're impossible to shut down. Ollie needs to up his game & learn some new tricks if he is to survive at this level. Over to the coaching & practice field it is for him I feel but we 100% need some fresh blood in there. Crazy to think we have a natural goal scorer sat on the bench! Edited October 3, 2022 by danceoftheshamen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Obviously a purely hypothetical scenario, but I am interested to guage the responses... If you had to choose between Watkins' genuinely valuable pressing game plus no more goals from him this season. OR Not much pressing at all and 8-10 goals from Archer what would you go for? Guessing the pragmatists might favour Watkins' pressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Lerner's Driver said: Obviously a purely hypothetical scenario, but I am interested to guage the responses... If you had to choose between Watkins' genuinely valuable pressing game plus no more goals from him this season. OR Not much pressing at all and 8-10 goals from Archer what would you go for? Guessing the pragmatists might favour Watkins' pressing. Definitely rather have Archer. Watkins may press, but when it's tight, he wastes so many attacks/so much possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted October 3, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 3, 2022 Given we are short of wide players, Bailey has been pretty ineffective and Watkins is struggling to finish, does anyone think he should be played as a wide forward, with Ings/Archer as the striker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 5 hours ago, one_ian_taylor said: Given we are short of wide players, Bailey has been pretty ineffective and Watkins is struggling to finish, does anyone think he should be played as a wide forward, with Ings/Archer as the striker? Think the Watkins & Ings together thing has been proven to be ineffective. I would like to see him with Archer just to see if it could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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