TRO Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, MaVilla said: the goal aside, i think he had a really poor game. The question nagging at me is.....should he have passed to Bailey, in theory? I get that he wants to score and such a fine finish as it was...but we are talking decision making here. Great goal, none the less...and I get it must have been the right decision, because he scored, but if he had of missed, a whole different scenario, I suspect. Edited November 23, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooJung Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, TRO said: The question nagging at me is.....should he have passed to Bailey, in theory? I get that he wants to score and such a fine finish as it was...but we are talking decision making here. Great goal, none the less...and I get it must have been the right decision, because he scored, but if he had of missed, a whole different scenario, I suspect. Passing it would've been the right thing to do there Hindsight is wonderful and we're all delighted he didn't, but there have been a few occasions this season in which there was a pass on and he shot instead. Overall I've been underwhelmed by Ollie this season, his decision making has been poor, his finishing has generally been poor (Saturday's goal aside) ans his touch and control have been way off. Hopefully this goal boosts his confidence and he can improve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, TRO said: The question nagging at me is.....should he have passed to Bailey, in theory? I get that he wants to score and such a fine finish as it was...but we are talking decision making here. Great goal, none the less...and I get it must have been the right decision, because he scored, but if he had of missed, a whole different scenario, I suspect. Obviously we cant question the outcome of what he did in scoring........but the outcome isnt the same as "what was the optimal option" at the time just before the goal. The best option in that scenario was to pass to Bailey, if you froze time for Watkins cutting across, then seeing Bailey completely free in the still frame, 999/1000 anyone with a brain would say "take the open pass to the person in acres of space". I accept he scored a great goal, but if he had missed that people would have rightly said it was idiotic and selfish not to pass to a teammate in a clearly open/unmarked position, i dont want to dig at Watkins, he scored and thats great, cant knock him for scoring, but i also think i have seen many times this season that Watkins is very selfish and picks the wrong choice many times, including seeming to refuse to pass to Ings many times, im not saying he does this on purpose, but Watkins' decision making for me is quite poor this season, many times he just runs in to players or makes a poor choice, or passes adrift. Hence me saying, the goal aside (which was a great goal...well done), he was really really poor in his general play imo. I will caveat that by actually saying, he scored a great goal, worked really hard out of possession which was nice to see, but in possession he was very poor for almost every moment apart from the goal. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, MaVilla said: Obviously we cant question the outcome of what he did in scoring........but the outcome isnt the same as "what was the optimal option" at the time just before the goal. The best option in that scenario was to pass to Bailey, if you froze time for Watkins cutting across, then seeing Bailey completely free in the still frame, 999/1000 anyone with a brain would say "take the open pass to the person in acres of space". I accept he scored a great goal, but if he had missed that people would have rightly said it was idiotic and selfish not to pass to a teammate in a clearly open/unmarked position, i dont want to dig at Watkins, he scored and thats great, cant knock him for scoring, but i also think i have seen many times this season that Watkins is very selfish and picks the wrong choice many times, including seeming to refuse to pass to Ings many times, im not saying he does this on purpose, but Watkins' decision making for me is quite poor this season, many times he just runs in to players or makes a poor choice, or passes adrift. Hence me saying, the goal aside (which was a great goal...well done), he was really really poor in his general play imo. I will caveat that by actually saying, he scored a great goal, worked really hard out of possession which was nice to see, but in possession he was very poor for almost every moment apart from the goal. It could come down to trying to hard, due to his indifferent form....just hope the new coaches , put him back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted November 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 If i'm honest, I don't think Ollie is as " naturally talented " as some, his thing is more hard work and making himself a nuisance. Basically, he's not an elite or top tier " striker " IMO, but an all round very good player if that makes any sense. If/when we go up another level, he could soon become a squad player. I do love him though, but there are things he obviously needs to work on, but i'm not sure the deficiencies he does have, can necessarily be " worked on " at this stage. Having said that, I think it's desperation to get a goal which triggers some of that " decision making ". If we want to be really critical, we could say, on another day, that gets saved, or goes wide/high, potentially costing us points. However, the thing is, Leon could possibly have fluffed it as well ( Unlikely from the advantage of position to be fair ). Anyway, happy with how it turned out. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 It’s interesting because had Watkins not scored we would all be saying he should have squared it. I’ve always thought that it’s a sign of a good team ethos when you see sides regularly squaring the ball to better placed colleagues despite having good opportunities to shoot on goal themselves, you see City do it a lot I think. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: If i'm honest, I don't think Ollie is as " naturally talented " as some, his thing is more hard work and making himself a nuisance. Basically, he's not an elite or top tier " striker " IMO, but an all round very good player if that makes any sense. If/when we go up another level, he could soon become a squad player. I do love him though, but there are things he obviously needs to work on, but i'm not sure the deficiencies he does have, can necessarily be " worked on " at this stage. Having said that, I think it's desperation to get a goal which triggers some of that " decision making ". If we want to be really critical, we could say, on another day, that gets saved, or goes wide/high, potentially costing us points. However, the thing is, Leon could possibly have fluffed it as well ( Unlikely from the advantage of position to be fair ). Anyway, happy with how it turned out. Great assessment of Ollie. I think he’s his own worst critic and is so desperate to prove himself that he doesn’t always do the right thing. Hopefully the goal gave him some confidence. You could tell he was delighted and I think it meant something to him to get that connection with the Holte End. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: If i'm honest, I don't think Ollie is as " naturally talented " as some, his thing is more hard work and making himself a nuisance. Basically, he's not an elite or top tier " striker " IMO, but an all round very good player if that makes any sense. If/when we go up another level, he could soon become a squad player. I do love him though, but there are things he obviously needs to work on, but i'm not sure the deficiencies he does have, can necessarily be " worked on " at this stage. Having said that, I think it's desperation to get a goal which triggers some of that " decision making ". If we want to be really critical, we could say, on another day, that gets saved, or goes wide/high, potentially costing us points. However, the thing is, Leon could possibly have fluffed it as well ( Unlikely from the advantage of position to be fair ). Anyway, happy with how it turned out. I agree on the natural part, his touch and control are all over the place this season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Zatman said: I agree on the natural part, his touch and control are all over the place this season He don't like a tackle either. Was watching him in the Brighton game, not once did I see him put a tackle in or chase a ball he lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AntrimBlack Posted November 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 6 hours ago, TRO said: The question nagging at me is.....should he have passed to Bailey, in theory? I get that he wants to score and such a fine finish as it was...but we are talking decision making here. Great goal, none the less...and I get it must have been the right decision, because he scored, but if he had of missed, a whole different scenario, I suspect. No guarantee that Bailey would have scored. That's what posters are ignoring. And if he had not scored then we would be saying that Watkins should have taken a shot. It is what it is - a great goal - let's not spoil it by over analysis. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: No guarantee that Bailey would have scored. That's what posters are ignoring. And if he had not scored then we would be saying that Watkins should have taken a shot. It is what it is - a great goal - let's not spoil it by over analysis. i dont think anyone is ignoring that anyone can miss any shot, the point is, in that pre defined scenario, the best option is to pass to bailey, as that gives the best chance of scoring, on balance. and no-one is spoiling the great goal by discussing it, its a valid point, it was great that Watkins scored, it was a great goal, but it also clearly wasnt the optimal choice to take the shot, is all people are saying. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post spiezels Posted November 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 Jeeesus Christ, just enjoy the screamer lads. 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post useless Posted November 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 When I was watching the game I was shouting in my head 'don't pass to Bailey it looks like a tap in, but he will have to adjust his body and take a touch, and whilst he's closer to the goal he's also closer to the keeper who can close him down, it's not as simple as a chance as it looks, just curl it in yourself', obviously I didn't formulate that sentence, but it describes what i felt, and luckily Watkins was on the same wavelength as me and took the shot. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 7 hours ago, TRO said: The question nagging at me is.....should he have passed to Bailey, in theory? I get that he wants to score and such a fine finish as it was...but we are talking decision making here. Great goal, none the less...and I get it must have been the right decision, because he scored, but if he had of missed, a whole different scenario, I suspect. No. It's a weakness imo - not just at villa, to want an extra pass. Glad he was a bit greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, hippo said: No. It's a weakness imo - not just at villa, to want an extra pass. Glad he was a bit greedy. He’s a striker, if a striker doesn’t want to shoot that’s when the issue arises. Glad he was “greedy” too, it’s like when we see a SJM rocket volley from 30 yard - I’m sure a pass will be more likely to come off but as a footballer at the highest level of your profession you have to take chances. Even Mings can slap it in on his weaker foot in the right situations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I didn’t even realise there was a pass on to Bailey until I read this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sparrow1988 Posted November 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I didn’t even realise there was a pass on to Bailey until I read this! Neither did Watkins 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 54 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I didn’t even realise there was a pass on to Bailey until I read this! Hi Ollie 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted November 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 23, 2021 just watched the goal again. one replay was from a camera presumably in the north stand. the keeper's position is absolutely shambolic. unsighted himself by being way too far to his right. ollie had plenty of goal to aim at therefore you'd expect any striker to take the shot on. three defenders all got drawn to him too but one (number 5...dunk?) did start to move across as he was taking the shot, seeing the space, but did so too late. so it's plausable that given another second or 2 he might have gotten across and blocked bailey's shot had ollie passed IMO, ollie 100% did the right thing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: No guarantee that Bailey would have scored. That's what posters are ignoring. And if he had not scored then we would be saying that Watkins should have taken a shot. It is what it is - a great goal - let's not spoil it by over analysis. I do see that side of it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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