Aleksander Tonev

[maqroll]

Keeping him around doesn't make a tonev sense 

 

Edited November 1, 2014 by maqroll

[VillanousOne]

 

Every manager makes mistakes FFS.

I think his "stars" have more than equalled his flops.

 

Your kidding? right?

 

Stars? Benteke? One season looking very good, second season looking like he didn't care then the injury. I will reserve my judgement for a while yet but he has a very long way to go before he can be called a star. He has tons of ability but from what I've seen it will be another club who will benefit.

 

Vlaar hahaha, good WC useless again for Villa, the most overrated centre half that I can recall.

 

After that I'm struggling to think of which of Lamberts signing that you might be even considering as stars, maybe Guzan? good keeper and I'm glad we have him but he's not good enough for one of the top teams, Westwood? sure he's probably worth a bit more than we paid for him but not much.

 

Sorry but this club has no star players, which doesn't make good reading for us but it's true.

 

The horrible truth is even when playing well Benteke was looking to leave at the first opportunity, if he shows an kind of form this season he'll be gone in the summer, only thing we can hope is we make a profit.

 

Vlaar has been good in short spells - it's mainly injury that has made it hard to judge how good he is.

[AVTuco]

Keeping him around doesn't make a tonev sense 

 

Bad enough to deserve a like. Keep it up maqroll!

[Villan4Life]

Hopefully we sack Tonev now verdict is true.

[Villan4Life]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2876921/Aleksandar-Tonev-verdict-damning-conclusion-SFA-judicial-panel-said-Celtic-star.html

 

 

Don't touch me you black c***. Six words likely to cause offence to any right-minded person. Six words at the heart of a case that has ended with Celtic’s on-loan Aston Villa winger Aleksandar Tonev being hit with a seven-match ban.

It has taken one SFA Judicial Panel Disciplinary Tribunal and one Appellate Tribunal - the latter chaired by an extremely senior legal figure - three months to reach a verdict on whether or not Tonev directed this abusive phrase at Aberdeen defender Shay Logan.

The lengthy ‘Written Reasons’ released on the recommendation of the appeal body yesterday cover every known cough and spit of the moment in question, as well as covering most of the complicated legal arguments on either side.

 

 

THE INCIDENT  

Celtic v Aberdeen, September 13, 2014. According to referee Bobby Madden, who gave evidence, he was approached by Aberdeen captain Mark Reynolds and ‘advised that Mr Logan had been subjected to a racist comment by Mr Tonev’.

The report from the initial hearing on October 30 continues: ‘One minute later, Mr Logan approached him, intimated that he had been called “a black c***” and pointed to Mr Tonev who was wearing number 27.

‘The referee indicated that Mr Logan’s demeanour was “somewhere between upset and angry” … he was then shown video footage of the match and confirmed that at the 56th minute he could be seen in conversation with Mr Logan.’

 

 

THE PROSECUTION  

Logan gave evidence admitting he’d committed a foul on Tonev around the 52nd minute, for which he held up his hand in apology. The gesture could be seen on the video evidence.

The players came together in the penalty box moments later and, according to the Panel chairman’s report: ‘Almost immediately after this Mr Tonev said to Mr Logan: “Don’t touch me you black c***”.

‘Mr Logan, at first, just looked at him and then he made some comment along the lines of: “Are you sure?” and Mr Tonev replied: “Yes, yes”.

‘Mr Logan indicated he wanted to get the attention of someone, either the referee or his captain. He saw his captain and went over to speak to him. He informed Mark Reynolds of what had been said; this was within one minute of the offensive remark being made, and as soon as there was no real danger of the opponent scoring. Thereafter, at the first opportunity he spoke to the referee and informed him of the racist remark made by Mr Tonev.’

Logan also said he reported the incident to Aberdeen manager Derek McInnes later in the game, after Aberdeen had scored. Later in the game, he also spoke to Tonev and ‘asked him if he still thought that he was “a black c***” and stated that he would “see him in the tunnel.”’

Asked if he could have been mistaken, Logan replied ‘one million per cent no’, adding that he would never try to tarnish a fellow pro and that he ‘knew what the word black sounds like’, having been racially abused earlier in his career.

The report adds: ‘He confirmed that he spoke to Mr John Collins, the assistant manager of Celtic who had asked him if he was 100 per cent sure about the comment and he said “one million per cent”.’

 

 

Logan also stressed: ‘I know it will have a damaging effect on the player but I would never choose to put that on anyone unless it was true.’

Various video clips were shown of Mr Logan speaking to Reynolds and to the referee, not celebrating after the Aberdeen goal and speaking to McInnes.

None of the witnesses – Reynolds, Madden, McInnes and Aberdeen football operations manager Steve Gunn, who all had conversation with Logan – claimed to have heard the exchange between the defender and Tonev.

 

THE DEFENCE  

Tonev, who declined the offer of a Bulgarian translator, was represented by Solicitor Advocate Liam O’Donnell, while Celtic assistant manager John Collins was allowed to remain in the room after opening the evidence for the defence.

Collins said McInnes had advised him, during the match, of the incident between Tonev and Logan. The Celtic No 2 then met with Logan after the game to ask if there was ‘any chance that the racist phrase had not been said’.

When Logan said he was sure, Collins spoke to Tonev, ‘who appeared to be shocked and bemused when the allegation was put to him. Mr Collins had said to Mr Tonev that he should apologise if he had said something “in a moment of madness”. However Mr Tonev was adamant that he had not made the remark complained of.’

Tonev himself said that, after he’d been taken hold of by Logan in the penalty area, he told him to ‘get your hands off me.’ He denied calling him ‘a black c***.’

Furthermore, according to the chairman’s report: ‘Mr Tonev stated that he did not know what the word c*** meant and denied ever saying it. He stated that there was no further discussion between the players on the pitch. ‘

 

 

When cross-examined by SFA compliance officer Tony McGlennan, Tonev admitted he had heard the word c*** before on the training field at Aston Villa and that, while he did not know what it meant, he knew it was a form of abuse.

According to the Written Reasons: ‘Tonev was clear that he had not used the phrase “black c***” during the match. The first time he was aware of the phrase being used was when Mr John Collins spoke to him.

‘He had played football with many black players and would not use language of this kind. He accepted that there was no place for racism in football.’

 

CLOSING ARGUMENTS 

McGlennan argued that, if Logan had been unsure of exactly what he’d heard, he would not have taken the complaint to his captain, the referee and his manager. Logan was described as a ‘reliable and credible witness’.

O’Donnell argued that it was ‘one player’s word against the other’, urged the panel to treat both witnesses as credible – and ‘conclude that it was likely that Mr Logan had misheard the purported remark’.

He also pointed to ‘an inconsistency between Mr Logan’s evidence and his written statement, on the issue of a subsequent discussion between the players on the pitch’.

 

THE VERDICT - AND SENTENCE 

According to the official summation of the chairman: ‘The tribunal found Mr Logan to be an impressive witness. He gave his evidence in a careful and measured manner.

‘He gave clear and unequivocal evidence that Mr Tonev had used the language complained of and that it had been targeted at him following an otherwise unremarkable on the field incident.

‘His evidence of his immediate reaction to the comments and his subsequent action in reporting them was in all material respects consistent with the evidence of Madden, Reynolds, McInnes, and Gunn, as well as the video evidence. The tribunal had no difficulty in finding that he was both a credible and reliable witness.

‘Mr Tonev gave his evidence in a guarded and hesitant manner. His evidence amounted to a denial that the words used by him had included the phrase “black c***”.

‘His evidence on his understanding of the language said to have been used, was particularly unsatisfactory. In chief examination his evidence was to the effect that he did not know what the word “c***” meant. On cross examination he explained that he had heard the term in his time at Aston Villa but did not know what it meant. He then accepted that he was aware that it was term of abuse.

‘The impression was of a witness giving a less than a full account of his actual understanding; and seemed to the tribunal to be an inherently improbable account. On the central issue in the case we were unable to accept him as either credible or reliable.

‘We found on the balance of probabilities that Mr Tonev did say to Mr Logan “Don’t touch me you black c***”.’

The panel had intended to hand Tonev a nine-match ban but, taking into account his previous good record, reduced the punishment to seven matches.

 

 

THE APPEAL  

The Right Honourable Lord Bonomy chaired the three-man body, joined by James Hastie and Alan Dick, at the appeal hearing at Hampden on December 4.

Richard Keen QC, acting for Tonev, argued that standard ‘balance of probabilities’ couldn’t be applied to such a serious case and argued for a greater burden of proof, citing two historical cases as precedent.

Keen further said that ‘a number of questions remained to be addressed, such as how the weather conditions may have affected Logan’s ability to hear what was said, the fact that the appellant is Bulgarian and that English is not his first language, and the unusual and improbable nature of the complaint.’

Tonev’s lawyer also appealed against the length of the suspension, arguing that the offence – if proven – was at the lower end of the scale, necessitating only a four-match ban.

In response, Aidan O’Neill QC submitted that ‘the case was simple and straightforward and invited the Appellate Tribunal to apply common sense and their experience of football (in the case of two members of the Tribunal) in deciding whether the Disciplinary Tribunal had erred.’

He also said no-one should be distracted by the confusion over Tonev’s understanding of the word c***, arguing: ‘What really mattered was the element of racism reflected in the use of the word “black” with which, as could be seen from paragraph 28 of the Written Reasons, he was plainly familiar.’

O’Neill also insisted that the balance of probabilities was sufficient in such a case, citing precedent and adding: ‘The circumstances of this complaint did not bear comparison with a case where murder had to be proved.’

The Appellate Tribunal found that the original panel ‘took account of all relevant evidence, and left out of account irrelevant considerations (such as the weather conditions), in deciding whether the case had been made out on the balance of probabilities and were particularly conscious that a determination of excessive misconduct could only be made if that standard was satisfied.

‘But in the end the crucial finding in the case was the finding that Logan was not only a credible witness but more particularly that he was also a reliable witness. ‘Clear and entirely adequate reasons for making that finding and for concluding on the balance of probabilities that the appellant committed the alleged misconduct are set out in the Written Reasons.#

The appeal body upheld the original verdict and sentence – and recommended that the entire findings of both bodies be published, putting an end to ‘ill-informed speculation’ about the case.

 

 

[Condimentalist]

Let's sack him. Takes a stand against racism and gets the useless prick off our books.

[Risso]

 In chief examination his evidence was to the effect that he did not know what the word “c***” meant. On cross examination he explained that he had heard the term in his time at Aston Villa but did not know what it meant.

 

 

In conjunction with the word "useless", I bet.

[Isa]

As was always the case, there is absolutely no independent evidence to justify a ban. He has been found guilty solely on the basis that there is no reason why Logan would make it up. Don't get me wrong, I doubt that Logan is making it up - but - it's not conclusive enough for me to be certain enough to condemn him as a racist.

[samjp26]

What I find hilarious is Tonev saying he picked up the word "word removed" at Aston Villa. In his defence, I certainly believe that, I remember Benteke explaining it to Hazard because he had no idea what it meant, Benteke said he learnt it from Lambert haha

[sheepyvillian]

Me thinks he doth protest too much .

[StefanAVFC]

Me thinks he doth protest too much .

 

How dare he protest his innocence if he believes he is.

[rodders0223]

Me thinks he doth protest too much .

 

Me thinks he doth protest too much .

 

Yeah, if some lad was trying to ruin my career, I would just sit back too.

[paulfromsutton]

The only reason I don't want him back is because he is crap simple as that

[PieFacE]

I really want him to come back. I used to love it on FIFA13, playing Tonev and just shooting from anywhere and it flying into the top corner, was great fun.

 

In terms of real life, he's absolutely useless. 

[Risso]

What I find hilarious is Tonev saying he picked up the word "word removed" at Aston Villa. In his defence, I certainly believe that, I remember Benteke explaining it to Hazard because he had no idea what it meant, Benteke said he learnt it from Lambert haha

 

Tonev will have learned it from 35,000 people saying it all at once as he shanked another one into row Z.  I've no idea if he's racist or not, but I am absolutely certain that I don't think I've seen a poorer excuse for a player at Villa since Michael Boulding.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Yep! He's as much of a Premier League footballer as Steve Bruce is an Abercrombie & Fitch model.

[briny_ear]

Poor old Tonev. His lawyer seems to have advised him to argue he didn't know the meaning of the word "c***" but he got done on the grounds that he knew the meaning of the word "black".

 

Hope his lawyer didn't charge too much.

 

Edited December 19, 2014 by briny_ear

[il_serpente]

Perhaps he wasn't being racist at all but just being descriptive. The incident occurred in the box, where it's generally pretty crowded. There were probably a couple of opponents touching him and perhaps he was just trying to make it very clear which c*** he didn't want touching him. Would have been a more convincing defence than claiming not to know the meaning of the word.

[bobzy]

As was always the case, there is absolutely no independent evidence to justify a ban. He has been found guilty solely on the basis that there is no reason why Logan would make it up. Don't get me wrong, I doubt that Logan is making it up - but - it's not conclusive enough for me to be certain enough to condemn him as a racist.

 

In Bulgaria, "black" is a friendly term! 

[briny_ear]

 

As was always the case, there is absolutely no independent evidence to justify a ban. He has been found guilty solely on the basis that there is no reason why Logan would make it up. Don't get me wrong, I doubt that Logan is making it up - but - it's not conclusive enough for me to be certain enough to condemn him as a racist.

 

In Bulgaria, "black" is a friendly term! 

 

"Hey, Negrito!"

 

 

Edited December 19, 2014 by briny_ear