Agbonla-score Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The word of one person believed above the word of another based on how the different accounts were represented - doesn't sit right with me. I've applied the principle to my two kids when they were 8 and 10, but the worst outcome was an innocent kid spent a boring hour in their room. If the principle applies in UK courts, is this why rape victims are advised to wear frumpy clothing to court as an above the knee skirt indicates 'she was asking for it'? The standard of proof in the criminal court is "beyond reasonable doubt". So one person's word against another in those circumstances is usually (but not always) not enough. In civil courts cases are decided "on the balance of probabilities", i.e. more likely than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agbonla-score Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not necessarily. I'm an employment lawyer and have handled many race/sex discrimination claims in the Tribunal. A large proportion of them involve 'he said / she said' arguments and the role of the tribunal is to decide which person should be believed. A case will not be rejected just because the only two witnesses to the comment were the alleged perpetrator and the alleged victim. The SFA obviously weren't impressed with the way Tonev gave evidence in comparison to Logan. Given that Tonev's English may be limited he was probably at a disadvantage from the outset. Ah, I see, fair enough. The problem I have with that is that deciding who you do and do not believe is completely subjective and differs from person to person. I just wouldn't be comfortable personally with conclusively labelling someone of something like this based on such a premise. Me neither. Especially considering Tonev's first language isn't English and for that reason he may not have come over very well when giving evidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno_2004 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Can we cancel his contract with no pay-off on the grounds of gross misconduct? Surely something positive can come out of this debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.I.C.O. Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Can we cancel his contract with no pay-off on the grounds that he's a shit footballer? He makes Ali Dia look like Pele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's a bit mental, when you think of it, that players can't be let go like regular people for being rubbish at their jobs. Where's the EU rushing off to make an employment ruling on that one I ask 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Tonev - another failure of a signing by Lambo. Also calls into question his judgement of players and their characters which is saying something after his mis-judgement with the previous set of coaching staff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The tonev signing made a lot of sense. He's two footed, scored for fun at his last team and looked very bright. That it didnt work out is part and parcel of the game, but I certainly wouldn't hold that signing against him - it looked a no-brainer for the price 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiezels Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Every manager makes mistakes FFS. I think his "stars" have more than equalled his flops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The tonev signing made a lot of sense. He's two footed, scored for fun at his last team and looked very bright. That it didnt work out is part and parcel of the game, but I certainly wouldn't hold that signing against him - it looked a no-brainer for the price Scored for fun? He scored 7 goals in 54 games in Poland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Goal machine then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The tonev signing made a lot of sense. He's two footed, scored for fun at his last team and looked very bright. That it didnt work out is part and parcel of the game, but I certainly wouldn't hold that signing against him - it looked a no-brainer for the price Scored for fun? He scored 7 goals in 54 games in Poland. Aye but didn't the majority of them come towards the end of his tenure, when we were looking at him - suggesting that he'd grown into a real threat. I might be mistaken, but I don't think a huge amount of them came early on, which was why he was relatively highly rated at the time we signed him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Lets face it we were all excited after watching the infamous youtube video and we chose to ignore those who told us he was nowhere near good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I blame Stan. He vouched for this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 The tonev signing made a lot of sense. He's two footed, scored for fun at his last team and looked very bright. That it didnt work out is part and parcel of the game, but I certainly wouldn't hold that signing against him - it looked a no-brainer for the price Scored for fun? He scored 7 goals in 54 games in Poland. Aye but didn't the majority of them come towards the end of his tenure, when we were looking at him - suggesting that he'd grown into a real threat. I might be mistaken, but I don't think a huge amount of them came early on, which was why he was relatively highly rated at the time we signed him mate of mine follows Wisla and he said was a shocking move at the time that he wasnt even regular at Poznan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rob182 Posted October 31, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2014 Tonev - another failure of a signing by Lambo. Also calls into question his judgement of players and their characters which is saying something after his mis-judgement with the previous set of coaching staff.Lambert's judgement of their characters? I doubt any contract discussion or scouting would unearth that Tonev may, allegedly, make racist comments that cannot be proven but can be punishable via 'probability'. Unless you were hoping the scout report would say 'appears good at long shots but can go missing at times, two footed, quick, possible racist'. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 31, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Also calls into question his judgement of players and their characters There are plenty of sticks to beat Lambert with without making shit like this up. Unless Tonev turned up to his pay negotiations in a nazi uniform and told Lambert he was looking forward to playing with all the darkies in our team, just how is Lambert supposed to have judged his character and determine that he might say something racist in a couple of years? Edited October 31, 2014 by Stevo985 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yeah you can't blame Lambert for this. That's a bit far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I blame him for wasting more transfer money and not getting the most from the player but then that goes for a lot of his signings. Another Lambert recruited person who has embarrassed the club (as if the football on show isn't bad enough) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Tonev, a bag of wank who should not be anywhere near this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanO Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Every manager makes mistakes FFS. I think his "stars" have more than equalled his flops. Your kidding? right? Stars? Benteke? One season looking very good, second season looking like he didn't care then the injury. I will reserve my judgement for a while yet but he has a very long way to go before he can be called a star. He has tons of ability but from what I've seen it will be another club who will benefit. Vlaar hahaha, good WC useless again for Villa, the most overrated centre half that I can recall. After that I'm struggling to think of which of Lamberts signing that you might be even considering as stars, maybe Guzan? good keeper and I'm glad we have him but he's not good enough for one of the top teams, Westwood? sure he's probably worth a bit more than we paid for him but not much. Sorry but this club has no star players, which doesn't make good reading for us but it's true. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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