Tyrone Mings

[a m ole]

44 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

The more you watch it the more you wonder how on earth that was given.

I thought it was a pen at the time but the more I see it, the more it looks like obvious manufacturing contact. After that, yes Mings falls on Salah but Gerrard is right, really Salah fouls Mings into falling on him, then he sells it with the pirouette. Even Shearer effectively called it gamesmanship on MoTD “you’re taught to step across the defender so if they challenge for the ball they take you out”, except by stepping across he trips Mings.

Edited December 12, 2021 by a m ole

[KevinRichardsonsMoustache]

28 minutes ago, a m ole said:

I thought it was a pen at the time but the more I see it, the more it looks like obvious manufacturing contact. After that, yes Mings falls on Salah but Gerrard is right, really Salah fouls Mings into falling on him, then he sells it with the pirouette. Even Shearer effectively called it gamesmanship on MoTD “you’re taught to step across the defender so if they challenge for the ball they take you out”, except by stepping across he trips Mings.

I’m in the same boat. The little headspring at the end really is the icing on the cake. Salah engineers the decision 

[thunderball]

I think we can improve on Mings, but for me his positives easily outweigh the negatives. I saw him win plenty in our box when no one else was getting on it yesterday.

[Tommo_b]

27 minutes ago, thunderball said:

I think we can improve on Mings, but for me his positives easily outweigh the negatives. I saw him win plenty in our box when no one else was getting on it yesterday.

Mings was outstanding yesterday, ref got conned by a Salah dive, frustrating.

[spiezels]

1 hour ago, thunderball said:

I think we can improve on Mings, but for me his positives easily outweigh the negatives. I saw him win plenty in our box when no one else was getting on it yesterday.

He’s done that the last 5 games tbf.

Wins absolutely everything. His positional awareness in the air is very good.

 

[spiezels]

For reference 

Mings v Konsa 

All duals won (61%) v (64%)

Tackles won (67%) v (55%)

Aerial duals won (67%) v (57%)

Take ons (100%) v (67%)

Fouls committed  (13) v (6) 

Dispossessed (3) v (3)

Error leading to goal (1) v (0)

So he does make more errors, but he’s a better player over all. We’d be in a much worse place without him. 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by spiezels

[JPJCB]

10 minutes ago, spiezels said:

For reference 

Mings v Konsa 

All duals won (61%) v (64%)

Tackles won (67%) v (55%)

Aerial duals won (67%) v (57%)

Take ons (100%) v (67%)

Fouls committed  (13) v (6) 

Dispossessed (3) v (3)

Error leading to goal (1) v (0)

So he does make more errors, but he’s a better player over all. We’d be in a much worse place without him. 

 

I think they’re just different styles of defenders which is what leads to these differences. Mings is much more assertive, aggressive and physical while konsa is more passive but excellent positionally. The 3v1 at the end of the game is a good example which happened because mings raced out to try and win the ball while konsa naturally decided to hold back.

I guess my point is that mings will always make more mistakes because his style is more aggressive and higher risk. But you wouldn’t want it where both of them played the exact same way as we’d be too passive in defence. It’s the same with vidic and Ferdinand - vidic made far more errors than Ferdinand because he was the more aggressive defender

[spiezels]

2 minutes ago, JPJCB said:

I think they’re just different styles of defenders which is what leads to these differences. Mings is much more assertive, aggressive and physical while konsa is more passive but excellent positionally. The 3v1 at the end of the game is a good example which happened because mings raced out to try and win the ball while konsa naturally decided to hold back.

I guess my point is that mings will always make more mistakes because his style is more aggressive and higher risk. But you wouldn’t want it where both of them played the exact same way as we’d be too passive in defence. It’s the same with vidic and Ferdinand - vidic made far more errors than Ferdinand because he was the more aggressive defender

Yeah agree with that, as you say, it’s better to have both types of player.

we wouldn’t be anywhere near physical enough with 2 konsas, mings attacks the ball in both attack and defence. 

[KentVillan]

11 minutes ago, JPJCB said:

I think they’re just different styles of defenders which is what leads to these differences. Mings is much more assertive, aggressive and physical while konsa is more passive but excellent positionally. The 3v1 at the end of the game is a good example which happened because mings raced out to try and win the ball while konsa naturally decided to hold back.

I guess my point is that mings will always make more mistakes because his style is more aggressive and higher risk. But you wouldn’t want it where both of them played the exact same way as we’d be too passive in defence. It’s the same with vidic and Ferdinand - vidic made far more errors than Ferdinand because he was the more aggressive defender

Agree, I think Mings + Konsa is a well balanced pairing. People trying to single one out as the star defender are missing the point it’s a team game.

[Lichfield Dean]

9 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

Did you see the name of the person who posted the tweet. 

Ah, no, didn't look

[MrBlack]

2 hours ago, spiezels said:

For reference 

Mings v Konsa 

All duals won (61%) v (64%)

Tackles won (67%) v (55%)

Aerial duals won (67%) v (57%)

Take ons (100%) v (67%)

Fouls committed  (13) v (6) 

Dispossessed (3) v (3)

Error leading to goal (1) v (0)

So he does make more errors, but he’s a better player over all. We’d be in a much worse place without him. 

 

Konsa won higher percentage of duals overall, but significantly lower percentage of aerial duals and tackles won.. what other duals are there?

[MrBlack]

2 hours ago, JPJCB said:

I think they’re just different styles of defenders which is what leads to these differences. Mings is much more assertive, aggressive and physical while konsa is more passive but excellent positionally. The 3v1 at the end of the game is a good example which happened because mings raced out to try and win the ball while konsa naturally decided to hold back.

I guess my point is that mings will always make more mistakes because his style is more aggressive and higher risk. But you wouldn’t want it where both of them played the exact same way as we’d be too passive in defence. It’s the same with vidic and Ferdinand - vidic made far more errors than Ferdinand because he was the more aggressive defender

I thought ferdinand made more errors as he was the one that tried the more creative playout from the back.

[ferguson1]

He gets some stick on here at times and some of it justifiably so but he’s an awesome captain really.  He’s a real presence and we’re just not the same side when he’s missing. 

[spiezels]

33 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Konsa won higher percentage of duals overall, but significantly lower percentage of aerial duals and tackles won.. what other duals are there?

Dick measuring in the showers I guess 

[VillanousOne]

I think Mings makes more errors as he takes more responsibility than anyone else in our defence, not always a good thing, but in general he leads by example.

[Indigo]

1 hour ago, MrBlack said:

Konsa won higher percentage of duals overall, but significantly lower percentage of aerial duals and tackles won.. what other duals are there?

Ground duels are essentially 50/50s, when both players are battling for a ball that has broken or whatever rather than a tackle which is different because that involves a player actually being in possession. 

[Zatman]

20 hours ago, MrBlack said:

Konsa won higher percentage of duals overall, but significantly lower percentage of aerial duals and tackles won.. what other duals are there?

Pistols at dawn

[gwi1890]

23 hours ago, spiezels said:

For reference 

Mings v Konsa 

All duals won (61%) v (64%)

Tackles won (67%) v (55%)

Aerial duals won (67%) v (57%)

Take ons (100%) v (67%)

Fouls committed  (13) v (6) 

Dispossessed (3) v (3)

Error leading to goal (1) v (0)

So he does make more errors, but he’s a better player over all. We’d be in a much worse place without him. 

 

They are totally different types of defenders they compliment each other well

[Stevo985]

I didn't see the game so I can't comment on performance, but I'm absolutely shocked that people are saying that was a dive (well, maybe not, it is VT after all)

Stonewall penalty. Mings didn't even argue

[tonyh29]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I didn't see the game so I can't comment on performance, but I'm absolutely shocked that people are saying that was a dive (well, maybe not, it is VT after all)

Stonewall penalty. Mings didn't even argue

likewise ,only saw it on MOTD 

it was more subtle than Kane's cheating against us and clearly not  a dive ... Mings reaction was he knew Salah kinda sprung a trap and he walked right into it ...

Edited December 13, 2021 by tonyh29