VillaChris Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 He's underwhelmed in many games this season particularly away from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 I can't believe people think there's even a debate to be had whether we should keep him next season or not. It's a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 (edited) I think next season will be a career defining season for him. Certainly in terms of his career here. He will turn 22 in September. He has around 60 starts for us now and it is getting to the stage where he should really be cementing himself a first 11 spot. I think given all the changes at the club this season he has done ok. He has 5 goals and a couple of assists and has earned us a few penalties in 20 starts. I think what has made things a little more difficult for him is that he hasn’t tied down a position yet going from being out left to being played in a middle three and a midfield two. I think his best position is probably at the head of a midfield three but I do think he can be effective out wide. Certainly not as a traditional winger getting to the by-line but by drifting in from the left. I think Jack is a very naturally gifted player. I think what he lacks is consistency and I think despite appearances suggesting otherwise he does lack confidence at times. His work rate for me has improved a lot this season and he does track back and will put a foot in so I don’t think that should now be questioned. I hope he does really kick on next season. It is always great to see local lad do well and he is a player that can get you off your seat and do something out of the blue and we don’t have too many of those. Hopefully he will have a trouble/headline free break, knuckle down in pre season and work his bollocks off to ensure he is competing for a starting place come August. At this level he could be a huge asset to us and has also shown he can shine in the top flight. Edited May 8, 2017 by markavfc40 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Really thought he'd flourish this season, but it wasn't to be. His attitude is still questionable at times, and he certainly hasn't been helped by Bruce's preferred 'playing style'. Having said that, no way in hell should he be sold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Not too concerned either way whether he stays or goes to be honest. Dcent option to bring off the bench at the end of the day, but I don't think he will amount to much if he does leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 1 hour ago, markavfc40 said: I think next season will be a career defining season for him. Certainly in terms of his career here. He will turn 22 in September. He has around 60 starts for us now and it is getting to the stage where he should really be cementing himself a first 11 spot. I think given all the changes at the club this season he has done ok. He has 5 goals and a couple of assists and has earned us a few penalties in 20 starts. I think what has made things a little more difficult for him is that he hasn’t tied down a position yet going from being out left to be played in a middle three and a midfield two. I think his best position is probably at the head of a midfield three but I do think he can be effective out wide. Certainly not as a traditional winger getting to the by-line but by drifting in from the left. I think Jack is a very natural gifted player. I think what he lacks is consistency and I think despite appearances suggesting otherwise he does lack confidence at times. His work rate for me has improved a lot this season and he does track back and will put a foot in so I don’t think that should now be questioned. I hope he does really kick on next season. It is always great to see local lad do well and he is a player that can get you off your seat and do something out of the blue and we don’t have too many of those. Hopefully he will have a trouble/headline free break, knuckle down in pre season and work his bollocks off to ensure he is competing for a starting place come August. At this level he could be a huge asset to us and has also shown he can shine in the top flight. I broadly agree although I felt this season would be his career defining one. Next season is well and truly last chance saloon for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted May 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 8, 2017 (edited) I kind of get why people say it and I think it myself at times, but then when I pause I think statements like career defining and last chance saloon are way too much for a 22 year old. Knockheart was probably the best midfield player in the championship this year, was he the dominating force at 22? Chris Woods and Dwight Gayle have scored goals for fun this year. Were they doing that at 22? What were the likes of hourihane, Lansbury and Kodjia doing at 22? I think the problem is that we've all known about jack since he was 15. And when he broke through under Sherwood he was fantastic. Now through his own mistakes and belonging to a joke of a club during key development years things have stalled but I just think it's maybe too much to claim next season is it for him. Edited May 8, 2017 by DCJonah 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 As long he keeps his attitude and desire on the pitch in check, he'll come good. Still plenty of time for him to develop yet. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 38 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I kind of get why people say it and I think it myself at times, but then when I pause I think statements like career defining and last chance saloon are way too much for a 22 year old. Knockheart was probably the best midfield player in the championship this year, was he the dominating force at 22? Chris Woods and Dwight Gayle have scored goals for fun this year. Were they doing that at 22? What were the likes of hourihane, Lansbury and Kodjia doing at 22? I think the problem is that we've all known about jack since he was 15. And when he broke through under Sherwood he was fantastic. Now through his own mistakes and belonging to a joke of a club during key development years things have stalled but I just think it's maybe too much to claim next season is it for him. Vardy was 28 before he came good. What age did Davies and Whittingham leave Villa and still go on to have good careers. I guess with the early promise he showed under Sherwood I would have expected him to kick on a bit. He has stagnated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 10 hours ago, skarroki said: I can't believe people think there's even a debate to be had whether we should keep him next season or not. It's a no brainer. Which is what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post terrytini Posted May 9, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 9, 2017 However inconsistent and underwhelming he's been, he has at least secured some points with a few goals. Its not much, but, like Adomah with his couple + assists he is nowhere near a priority to be moved on.....quite the opposite, as we currently stand he should - like Adomah - be starting (for all their faults). 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 There are times when players have had enough chances and need to move on....not sure jack is one of those, just yet. I could write paragraphs on whats wrong with Jack, but I prefer to write this. He needs the limelight off him, knuckle down and grow in a much better environment at BMH.....I see him as a bit immature in play and personality. Its like re potting a plant......He needs to start again.....away from the poisonous atmosphere of the past. I thinks its best to ignore him and let him work his way back. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted May 9, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, TRO said: I see him as a bit immature in play and personality. The rest of your post made some good points mate but in regard to the part I have quoted I think the reason he is immature is that at the start of this season he was still just 20. I think that is forgotten sometimes. I think you are right about the limelight needing to be taken off him. There actually aren’t that many players that get the level of attention he got at 19 which was all he was when he played in the semi final against Liverpool and people started to take a lot of notice. He hasn’t handled that level of attention well and it has gone to his head but it wasn’t helped by no one giving him a kick up the backside and dragging him into line. The senior influences at the club, Lescott, Gabby, Richards were setting totally the wrong examples. He has also seen 5 managers come and go since he broke into the team again hardly helping a young players development both on and off the pitch. I see enough in him to think that he should be cut a bit of slack. Yes he has been a pratt but you have to take into account his age and the shambolic nature of the club during his development. This season he has shown glimpses of what he is capable of. He has contributed to around 10 of our goals. Has worked hard and shown that he can track back and put a foot in. I think what he lacks surprisingly is confidence and belief in himself at times and that is something that can come from the manager. I’d hate to see him be moved on now. I’d see it as not only his failing but a failure of those at the club to have wasted such a naturally talented lad. As I said previously big summer coming up for him and he needs to get his head down, work his bollocks off, keep out of trouble and force the managers hand to pick him. Edited May 9, 2017 by markavfc40 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 17 hours ago, DCJonah said: I kind of get why people say it and I think it myself at times, but then when I pause I think statements like career defining and last chance saloon are way too much for a 22 year old. Knockheart was probably the best midfield player in the championship this year, was he the dominating force at 22? Chris Woods and Dwight Gayle have scored goals for fun this year. Were they doing that at 22? What were the likes of hourihane, Lansbury and Kodjia doing at 22? I think the problem is that we've all known about jack since he was 15. And when he broke through under Sherwood he was fantastic. Now through his own mistakes and belonging to a joke of a club during key development years things have stalled but I just think it's maybe too much to claim next season is it for him. Top post. I think we (myself included) got caught in the hype surrounding him and Ireland vs. England, linked with Man City etc and thought "****, when we're in the Championship, Grealish will be THE BEST PLAYER". Now through his own attitude, our poor playing style or who-knows-what, it hasn't happened for him. It would be ridiculous to write him off, though, and he's a Villa lad. He'll want to do well for the club and has plenty of time to figure out what his best role is. I'd love him to star in a promotion campaign next season. Would be right up there with 1996 League Cup win and Everton 2-3 Villa for me 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, markavfc40 said: The rest of your post made some good points mate but in regard to the part I have quoted I think the reason he is immature is that at the start of this season he was still just 20. I think that is forgotten sometimes. I think you are right about the limelight needing to be taken off him. There actually aren’t that many players that get the level of attention he got at 19 which was all he was when he played in the semi final against Liverpool and people started to take a lot of notice. He hasn’t handled that level of attention well and it has gone to his head but it wasn’t helped by no one giving him a kick up the backside and dragging him into line. The senior influences at the club, Lescott, Gabby, Richards were setting totally the wrong examples. He has also seen 5 managers come and go since he broke into the team again hardly helping a young players development both on and off the pitch. I see enough in him to think that he should be cut a bit of slack. Yes he has been a pratt but you have to take into account his age and the shambolic nature of the club during his development. This season he has shown glimpses of what he is capable off. Has contributed to around 10 of our goals. Has worked hard and shown that he can track back and put a foot in. I think what he lacks surprisingly is confidence and belief in himself at times and that is something that can come from the manager. I’d hate to see him be moved on now. I’d see it as not only his failing but a failure of those at the club to have wasted such a naturally talented lad. As I said previously big summer coming up for him and he needs to get his head down, work his bollocks off, keep out of trouble and force the managers hand to pick him. Yeah i get all that Mark and as I have said, I am still hoping that he comes good and no I wouldn't sell him. In respect of age and maturity there is a correlation in some ways and not in others. Andy Gray was far more mature at 19 and he liked a drink too, in terms of character......Gary Shaw was more mature at 17. but they both had a burning ambition to succeed......its largely intrinsic. However, i do think the times are more difficult with the media, the financial rewards are far greater too......and the atmoshere he has come through was toxic. I sincerely hope we can resurrect a Jack that we all thought we was getting.I for one will be delighted. Ps no one can deny he is a game changer, lets hope he can be more consistent at it. Edited May 9, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 23 hours ago, rodders0223 said: Not too concerned either way whether he stays or goes to be honest. Dcent option to bring off the bench at the end of the day, but I don't think he will amount to much if he does leave. I find this perplexing, he's only 21 years old, it's hard to believe because he seems to have been around for so long. For me, he's still an outstanding talent with huge potential, I think he is beginning to realise that potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Not sure how Bruce had us set up to play suited Jack one bit, not sure that the management know where best to play him really. He has enough talent and ability to be a success in this league next season and while I wouldnt go as far as building a team around him he could a vital link next season if only while Kodja is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted May 12, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 12, 2017 Out with the Newcastle boys last night by the look of it. Probably a hero up there! Would have been a good night out for him! And no, it doesn't matter really does it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Would you be embarrassed to be surrounded by winners when you couldn't hold down a place in a team that finished 13th in the Championship? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 12, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: Would you be embarrassed to be surrounded by winners when you couldn't hold down a place in a team that finished 13th in the Championship? No. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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