Summer transfer window 2021

[barry'sboots]

3 hours ago, paul514 said:

I’ll answer in order of points as it’s a long post.

Yes he does have those attributes.

On Heaton I don’t think it is a case of a bad apple upsetting the cart especially when it’s only one apple so to speak. There’s no point weakening your squad for such a minor reason, players do get injured.

I wouldn’t sell Nakamba as we wouldn’t get much for him and bringing in Koopmeiners means you would only have one specialist 6 if you sold the other.

McGinn can definitely play a 10 role, certainly better than he plays a 6 and he wouldn’t be the first choice 10

Sanson actually does play as a ten one of his best attributes ‘apparently’ is taking shots from 20 yards out apparently, but again he wouldn’t be the automatic first choice 10 in the scenario you and I are talking about.

On the forwards, I feel similarly about Jack, Olise can play all the forward positions. Sarr would be more of a shadow striker in a 10 role, but he is best suited to a wide forward role.

Personally I would prefer the 3 forwards in 4-2-3-1 to switch around as they see fit.

I think there are three priories not four number 1 same as yourself, 2nd is your forth and 3rd is your second.

The 2nd and 3rd priority players have to be first team players of really high quality and as a general rule all the other so called squad players must be genuinely capable of challenging the first team with the potential to over take them in the pecking order, like Konsa has done for example.

everything you said after I feel the same.

I think the figure you propose for the outgoings is achievable if we could find buyers for the all too, how achievable that is I don’t know.

I do feel if the board went out and did something like we are both suggesting that we would be guaranteed a top half finish as a minimum and next season or the season after we could develop into a team that challenges the top 6 without further spending. I would actually go as far as saying job done and after the 22/23 season we would need to reassess where we are going and what we hope to achieve.

Thats what I have in my head anyway.

One last thing I want to mention is how a 4-2-3-1 is supposed to work and why a DCM is so important to us this summer.

The system is supposed to work as two distinct units with four interchangeable players. So the front 4 are the attacking unit with the full backs joining when in an attacking phase of play. So if it is on the left we see Targett around Grealish but Cash shouldn’t be as forward as Targett unless the play switches to the right.

The defensive unit is the back four plus the 2 DCM’s. The DCM on the left should drop into Targetts position when he goes forward to fill in leaving the other DCM in position and Visa versa for if it were the right hand side. That is the strength of that system which it seems some people don’t appreciate. The role of the 10 is the same as the wide forwards, to press from the front in a defensive capacity not to help out the two DCM’s and this is one of our big failings this year due to the press not being up to standard and the DCM’s not doing as good a job as they should on that fill in.

I think, with Heaton and Nakamba, its not so much about value but more about keeping a manageable squad size and keeping everyone content.  Hard when you have too big a squad and no European football.  I think Steer is adequate cover and I think Luiz can play at 6.

I think McGinn and Sanson are both 8's.  I always think McGinn looks lost when he pushes too far up the pitch/uncomfortable with his back to goal.  Obviously, we haven't seen a lot of Sanson but what I have (games and Youtube) suggests he is much more comfortable as a box to box 8 who can break the lines, just as SJM can (not that we have seen much of that recently).

Agree on everything else and obviously we want all our young squad buys to come through in the way that Konsa has!

[paul514]

3 hours ago, barry'sboots said:

I think, with Heaton and Nakamba, its not so much about value but more about keeping a manageable squad size and keeping everyone content.  Hard when you have too big a squad and no European football.  I think Steer is adequate cover and I think Luiz can play at 6.

I think McGinn and Sanson are both 8's.  I always think McGinn looks lost when he pushes too far up the pitch/uncomfortable with his back to goal.  Obviously, we haven't seen a lot of Sanson but what I have (games and Youtube) suggests he is much more comfortable as a box to box 8 who can break the lines, just as SJM can (not that we have seen much of that recently).

Agree on everything else and obviously we want all our young squad buys to come through in the way that Konsa has!

Well you can only register 25 players so that is what everyone does. If you can’t register someone and it’s not a really long term injury there is no point in the player being at the club, I don’t think we are going to run into that issue with Nakamba. You’re right on the number of games so we will have to take the cups seriously if we get in half a dozen players so they get their time.

Anyway when you have more quality you can rotate more so they don’t get so fatigued.

Luiz can play at 6 if he has a true 6 next to him.

As for the squad players coming in a lot of people don’t agree on that. There are a lot of people who want to blow the lot on just a few players and keep the existing sub standard players or bring in kids that can’t challenge but might one day.

[Philosopher]

I very much enjoyed barrysboots and Paul's posts, and I agree on many of the points made. I'm just going to jump in with my perspective.

In terms of priorities we all agree a left back is essential. However the nature of that signing is somewhat contentious. I say spend 10 to 20 million and put Targett on notice that he has to keep improving or he'll lose his place.

We all also agree a right winger is necessary. I think we all also agree a 30 to 50 million spend on a quality operator is what has to happen otherwise what's the pont! Brooks and Buendia are both good shouts. I like Hakim Ziyech of Chelsea, but Tuchel seems to rightly rate him. David Brooks is most likely, because he is English, his club are unlikely to get promoted as things stand (whereas Buendia and Norwich are almost certain to go up, this will definitely impact any fee negatively for us, and make it possible for Norwich to keep hold of Buendia). 

The thing is all of these guys are playmaker type wingers that like to drift inside like Jack. So can can all be used as out and out no 10's also. With playmaker wingers you need quick attack minded fullbacks to overlap. A striker constantly looking to make runs in behind (Watkins is exactly that). Then either Runners from midfield or a shadow striker. However a shadow striker works best with a false nine or target man. So two 8's is what I see as most likely to happen. 

We all seem to want a big 6. Me too. Koopmenieers looks a good shout, I'd also look at Sander Barge. However I see Barge similar to Luiz in that they aren't sitting 6's and are equally comfortable as a no 8.  I think we would have to spend around 30m to get the quality we need here.

We also agree a  replacement for Engel is needed. Tuanzube would be my choice. The standard of football Revan is playing suggests he is miles off the first team.

So far we are looking at around 100 million for sorting out the immediate needs. Now personally I'd sign both Koopmenieers and Barge if possible, and bring the spend upto 130m, if we have the leeway from the changes from ffp.

Now this is where things get tricky. Some want another striker, some another winger. I agree we need another attacking re-enforcement too as the quality of our current wingers is insufficient (minus Jack), and the question marks over Wesley's fitness remain. However I'd hold back on making any concrete decision as Wesley is close to being ready to feature in games now. Also JPB is knocking on the door. 

With at least one winger coming in I'd move a winger on. Now for me first to go would be El-Ghazi, many others it would be Trez. I like Trez and if we had another hardworking winger like Trez playing Jack as a number 10 with two dynamic 6's would be a very viable defensive formation and playing a two of Wes and Traore up top with a hardworking flat or box 4 behind them for our second choice line up would function nicely. However we don't have that. The only player we have that can operate as a hardworking winger in a flat 4 or Box 4 is Sanson and he'd likely be needed in the middle. The other option is the play Traore and El-Ghazi wide of Wes and have Them running beyond Wes when in possession to get in behind. This is nice in theory but if we are on the defensive we'd have trouble getting any runners in behind. You can only do this with a possession based team.

Fortunately we won't really need to utilise a second 11 without European football, we'd only see it in the Carabou Cup. So for me I feel we can rely on Trez's effort and tenaciousness rather then El-Ghazi's sporadic acceptable form, which we only occasionally see when the team is functioning well. But ultimately it's comparing apples and oranges as they both aren't really good enough. Common sense suggests We keep Traore for another season as he could well improve with a proper preseason and this season to bed in and develop. 

Without European football I'd probably sell both Trez and El-Ghazi promote JPB and go with him and Traore as back ups with Wes (if he prove his fitness and hunger), as we also have Barry coming through. 

Without European football I'd rather us give the likes of Barry (as 3rd choice striker), JPB (as 4th choice Winger), Chukwuemeka (as 3rd or 4th choice 8 with Ramsey),  and Kesler (as 2nd choice right back with Guilbert) a place in the first team squad, and reassess this in Jan.

I'm personally of the opinion our first team still needs work and that would be my focus. With the talent coming through we should look to give them a proper chance and nurture a reputation of giving youth a chance.

I do believe we still have a slight chance of European football as most of our players are fit and Jack is back, so a strong winning run can catapult us when most teams will start fading.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

The fact that we have been safe for a while this season, should actually have improved our transfer strategy and positioning no end.

I've got to try not to get too excited. Lol

[Taxahunter]

I don't get why people want to keep Trez, just because he is hardworking. It doesn't matter if he is hardworking if we cant give him the ball, looses the ball every time he gets it, cant pass the ball to a teammate or just runs around like a headless chicken. Waste of time and place to keep playing him...

Edited March 31, 2021 by Taxahunter

[danceoftheshamen]

The Trez / Elghazi debate will rumble on & on. Such a shame we can't blend the best points of two into one player but the two as they stand are not enough as we have witnessed over the last half dozen games or more. 

Personally i'd like to see a new striker who could both offer strong competition for Watkins to keep him on his toes whilst also easing the burden on him / covering him if he got injured. To only have Wesley as back up is very dangerous as if Watkins got injured & Wesley takes another season to get back up to his peak which could well happen, we would be in trouble.

I agree we need a new LB and with the general sentiment that we have several kids who are showing signs and should feature. 

Bizarrely considering we were so well covered up until recently, the other potential issue is if Heaton pushes for a move which he may well do. This would leave us light in the Keeper position if we only had the injury prone Jed Steer as cover. The Croatian looks like he is off too of course. Not a priority but may need some attention.

Right back and of course our achillis heel position DM are the other area's of interest.

Will Guilbert return to act as cover to Matty Cash? Or will he push to make his move permanent? If so we need a new RB.

The major concern for me is the DM position however. It is hindering us immensely as we are wasting McGinn back there and effectively voiding his goalscoring potential. Luiz maybe too could be better utilized had we a true quality DM.

Of course there are the kids coming through to cover the gaps inbetween but for me it's going to be a very interesting Summer. Keeping Grealish is though paramount to all this.

 

[paul514]

4 hours ago, Philosopher said:

I very much enjoyed barrysboots and Paul's posts, and I agree on many of the points made. I'm just going to jump in with my perspective.

In terms of priorities we all agree a left back is essential. However the nature of that signing is somewhat contentious. I say spend 10 to 20 million and put Targett on notice that he has to keep improving or he'll lose his place.

We all also agree a right winger is necessary. I think we all also agree a 30 to 50 million spend on a quality operator is what has to happen otherwise what's the pont! Brooks and Buendia are both good shouts. I like Hakim Ziyech of Chelsea, but Tuchel seems to rightly rate him. David Brooks is most likely, because he is English, his club are unlikely to get promoted as things stand (whereas Buendia and Norwich are almost certain to go up, this will definitely impact any fee negatively for us, and make it possible for Norwich to keep hold of Buendia). 

The thing is all of these guys are playmaker type wingers that like to drift inside like Jack. So can can all be used as out and out no 10's also. With playmaker wingers you need quick attack minded fullbacks to overlap. A striker constantly looking to make runs in behind (Watkins is exactly that). Then either Runners from midfield or a shadow striker. However a shadow striker works best with a false nine or target man. So two 8's is what I see as most likely to happen. 

We all seem to want a big 6. Me too. Koopmenieers looks a good shout, I'd also look at Sander Barge. However I see Barge similar to Luiz in that they aren't sitting 6's and are equally comfortable as a no 8.  I think we would have to spend around 30m to get the quality we need here.

We also agree a  replacement for Engel is needed. Tuanzube would be my choice. The standard of football Revan is playing suggests he is miles off the first team.

So far we are looking at around 100 million for sorting out the immediate needs. Now personally I'd sign both Koopmenieers and Barge if possible, and bring the spend upto 130m, if we have the leeway from the changes from ffp.

Now this is where things get tricky. Some want another striker, some another winger. I agree we need another attacking re-enforcement too as the quality of our current wingers is insufficient (minus Jack), and the question marks over Wesley's fitness remain. However I'd hold back on making any concrete decision as Wesley is close to being ready to feature in games now. Also JPB is knocking on the door. 

With at least one winger coming in I'd move a winger on. Now for me first to go would be El-Ghazi, many others it would be Trez. I like Trez and if we had another hardworking winger like Trez playing Jack as a number 10 with two dynamic 6's would be a very viable defensive formation and playing a two of Wes and Traore up top with a hardworking flat or box 4 behind them for our second choice line up would function nicely. However we don't have that. The only player we have that can operate as a hardworking winger in a flat 4 or Box 4 is Sanson and he'd likely be needed in the middle. The other option is the play Traore and El-Ghazi wide of Wes and have Them running beyond Wes when in possession to get in behind. This is nice in theory but if we are on the defensive we'd have trouble getting any runners in behind. You can only do this with a possession based team.

Fortunately we won't really need to utilise a second 11 without European football, we'd only see it in the Carabou Cup. So for me I feel we can rely on Trez's effort and tenaciousness rather then El-Ghazi's sporadic acceptable form, which we only occasionally see when the team is functioning well. But ultimately it's comparing apples and oranges as they both aren't really good enough. Common sense suggests We keep Traore for another season as he could well improve with a proper preseason and this season to bed in and develop. 

Without European football I'd probably sell both Trez and El-Ghazi promote JPB and go with him and Traore as back ups with Wes (if he prove his fitness and hunger), as we also have Barry coming through. 

Without European football I'd rather us give the likes of Barry (as 3rd choice striker), JPB (as 4th choice Winger), Chukwuemeka (as 3rd or 4th choice 8 with Ramsey),  and Kesler (as 2nd choice right back with Guilbert) a place in the first team squad, and reassess this in Jan.

I'm personally of the opinion our first team still needs work and that would be my focus. With the talent coming through we should look to give them a proper chance and nurture a reputation of giving youth a chance.

I do believe we still have a slight chance of European football as most of our players are fit and Jack is back, so a strong winning run can catapult us when most teams will start fading.

 

I don’t think there are any people in the championship I would buy to be wide right other than Sarr or Buendia. I also think it would be nice to buy a player for 50 million but the level of quality would have to be off the charts for us to spend that, I’d be expecting someone of Pulasic’s quality for that price. In other words I think it’s a bit early.

Glad to see you are in the Koopmeiners train there is a passenger list of two now .

Agree on Revan and Tuanzebe.

If we are going to factor JBP into next years plans he needs minutes this year.

I get the argument on Wesley and I agree to an extent that I wouldn’t go shopping for a striker but when you have one of Eduoard’s quality for 20 million you pull the trigger early.

With regard to your use of 2 x 8’s I think that should be used as a tactical flexibility. In other words I think we should change in game or before a game between those two systems depending how a game is going or who we are playing.

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

The fact that we have been safe for a while this season, should actually have improved our transfer strategy and positioning no end.

I've got to try not to get too excited. Lol

This is one of the reasons I can just sit back and enjoy the rest of the season, regardless of how many we win and lose. 

Dean has kept us up and with the improvement this year, we know we will be a premier league team and I think quite an attractive option. 

I think the next few years are going to be the most exciting transfer windows in our premier league history.

[paul514]

23 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

This is one of the reasons I can just sit back and enjoy the rest of the season, regardless of how many we win and lose. 

Dean has kept us up and with the improvement this year, we know we will be a premier league team and I think quite an attractive option. 

I think the next few years are going to be the most exciting transfer windows in our premier league history.

If the owners continue to pump that cash in! We have seen nothing to suggest they won’t but we shouldn’t forget what they have done in terms of restoring us back to this league and the amount of cash that cost including wiping all the debt.

[ROTTERDAM1982]

FWIW my views

 

Goalkeeper and back 4 are fine, a young LB pushing would be nice but necessary imho.

Don't think the balance in midfield is right. Sansom, Mcginn and Luiz, for me , are similar kind of players, we need a ball winning midfielder. From what i have seen of Bissouma this season , he is ideal, and would give us a better balance in midfield. We look better with Marvellous in the team, but we need an upgrade on him.

Up front, Jack would get into any team, and Watkins is a good squad player at the very least. Haven't seen enough of Wes, but he rest are average at best.

IF we have significant money in the summer, then i would be looking for 3 top quality players. Ideally, for me Bissouma, or a similar kind of player, Alli, or again a similar, and Werner, or a similar. Fantasy i know, but you could argue that we always have the insurance of Jacks eventual sale.

[Zatman]

32 minutes ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

FWIW my views

 

Goalkeeper and back 4 are fine, a young LB pushing would be nice but necessary imho.

Don't think the balance in midfield is right. Sansom, Mcginn and Luiz, for me , are similar kind of players, we need a ball winning midfielder. From what i have seen of Bissouma this season , he is ideal, and would give us a better balance in midfield. We look better with Marvellous in the team, but we need an upgrade on him.

Up front, Jack would get into any team, and Watkins is a good squad player at the very least. Haven't seen enough of Wes, but he rest are average at best.

IF we have significant money in the summer, then i would be looking for 3 top quality players. Ideally, for me Bissouma, or a similar kind of player, Alli, or again a similar, and Werner, or a similar. Fantasy i know, but you could argue that we always have the insurance of Jacks eventual sale.

Smith doesn't play ball winning midfielders, he didnt at Brentford and even tried Conor there in the early days he took over

[Philosopher]

1 hour ago, paul514 said:

I don’t think there are any people in the championship I would buy to be wide right other than Sarr or Buendia. I also think it would be nice to buy a player for 50 million but the level of quality would have to be off the charts for us to spend that, I’d be expecting someone of Pulasic’s quality for that price. In other words I think it’s a bit early.

Glad to see you are in the Koopmeiners train there is a passenger list of two now .

Agree on Revan and Tuanzebe.

If we are going to factor JBP into next years plans he needs minutes this year.

I get the argument on Wesley and I agree to an extent that I wouldn’t go shopping for a striker but when you have one of Eduoard’s quality for 20 million you pull the trigger early.

With regard to your use of 2 x 8’s I think that should be used as a tactical flexibility. In other words I think we should change in game or before a game between those two systems depending how a game is going or who we are playing.

I agree on the fee, but if the right players is available we should be prepared to go to 50m. Sarr and Buendia would both be north of 30m, which fit with my 30 to 50 million expenditure. 

The reality is if we have 3 quality wingers that should be enough to get by while also being able to give a youngster a chance. A 4th choice if we aren't in Europe means he won't be getting loads of game unless we have an injury crisis in that position. However we can also play Watkins and Sanson out wide in emergencys. We can also save some money till Jan to address any issues that pop up.

Edouard apparently also has Arsenal and Leicester as admirers so he won't be easy to lure as both of those teams can offer higher wages, and Leicester almost certainly European football. The other thing is if Watkins is fit what do we do with Edouard, he isn't a winger even if he does like to drift out the the left.

The two 8's is simply what I believe suits two playmaker wingers, and what I believe Dean Smith favours. Of course we have to be flexible and ready and able to adjust. 

[Philosopher]

2 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

The Trez / Elghazi debate will rumble on & on. Such a shame we can't blend the best points of two into one player but the two as they stand are not enough as we have witnessed over the last half dozen games or more. 

Personally i'd like to see a new striker who could both offer strong competition for Watkins to keep him on his toes whilst also easing the burden on him / covering him if he got injured. To only have Wesley as back up is very dangerous as if Watkins got injured & Wesley takes another season to get back up to his peak which could well happen, we would be in trouble.

I agree we need a new LB and with the general sentiment that we have several kids who are showing signs and should feature. 

Bizarrely considering we were so well covered up until recently, the other potential issue is if Heaton pushes for a move which he may well do. This would leave us light in the Keeper position if we only had the injury prone Jed Steer as cover. The Croatian looks like he is off too of course. Not a priority but may need some attention.

Right back and of course our achillis heel position DM are the other area's of interest.

Will Guilbert return to act as cover to Matty Cash? Or will he push to make his move permanent? If so we need a new RB.

The major concern for me is the DM position however. It is hindering us immensely as we are wasting McGinn back there and effectively voiding his goalscoring potential. Luiz maybe too could be better utilized had we a true quality DM.

Of course there are the kids coming through to cover the gaps inbetween but for me it's going to be a very interesting Summer. Keeping Grealish is though paramount to all this.

 

In regards to the right back and goalkeeping positions as we don't know what Heaton and Guilbert wish to do we can't really plan to replace them. I believe Guilbert wants to stay and prove himself. As for Heaton I believe he is flexible. If a premier league club want to make him number their no1 and pay wages that pretty much match what he currently earns he will be off. But if any suitors can't pay him well enough and / or can't offer him the first choice slot he won't have any reason to leave. 

Definitely agree on Jack.

We make the right moves we could be fighting for the top 4 next season. F up and it's midtable mediocrity at best. So it's certainly interesting and exciting times.

[sne]

As far as I can find Faitout Maouassa who plays LB for the French U-21 side is sitting on a contract that expires in 2022 so he might be available for a OK price this summer.

He's missed a large part of this season after a foot injury but he's back now and he was really good the season before. Still only 22 (turns 23 this year) and he can also play further up the pitch.

Might be worth a punt.

[ferguson1]

I don’t really understand why people think Tuanzebe would be a good fit here now?

Firstly, his injury record is quite poor.  His price and because it’s United would be best part of 15-20m or more I’d imagine.

He’s not going to take the place of Konsa, so why would he leave United’s bench to sit on our bench?  I think this ship sailed when we signed Konsa to be honest.

Personally I’d be looking to sign a young CB from the Championship or Europe that will play a few games from the bench or if/when Konsa gets injured.

Edited March 31, 2021 by ferguson1

[maqroll]

Pulisic 

[TRO]

I am not saying, we only need one player.....but i do believe a midfield General of the sufficient calibre would have a knock on affect to our other players.

sometimes a crucial player can elevate others in the team.

That would be my priority fwiw.

[thabucks]

I’d much rather we went for Nathan Collins than Axel. 

[Dave-R]

2 hours ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

FWIW my views

 

Goalkeeper and back 4 are fine, a young LB pushing would be nice but necessary imho.

Don't think the balance in midfield is right. Sansom, Mcginn and Luiz, for me , are similar kind of players, we need a ball winning midfielder. From what i have seen of Bissouma this season , he is ideal, and would give us a better balance in midfield. We look better with Marvellous in the team, but we need an upgrade on him.

Up front, Jack would get into any team, and Watkins is a good squad player at the very least. Haven't seen enough of Wes, but he rest are average at best.

IF we have significant money in the summer, then i would be looking for 3 top quality players. Ideally, for me Bissouma, or a similar kind of player, Alli, or again a similar, and Werner, or a similar. Fantasy i know, but you could argue that we always have the insurance of Jacks eventual sale.

I agree and would like our money all spent on two Wingers and a new midfielder mainly, I think keeper, defence and strikers we may be fine with.

Could we maybe push Mcginn out on the right and spend and sign a real creative player who can without a doubt do the job??

[TRO]

2 hours ago, paul514 said:

If the owners continue to pump that cash in! We have seen nothing to suggest they won’t but we shouldn’t forget what they have done in terms of restoring us back to this league and the amount of cash that cost including wiping all the debt.

We just can't take them, for granted.

but they have been fabulous so far.

Edited March 31, 2021 by TRO