Summer transfer window 2021

[paul514]

10 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Same as pulisic, in 5 years time it will be the US world cup and he could potentially be the star of that team making him one of the most marketable players in world football

That's got to be worth £30-40m alone 

I doubt he would sign for us but maybe on loan

[thabucks]

12 minutes ago, paul514 said:

he could be very acceptable but that’s what scouting and analytics are for. I’d expect out of the world stats for someone who’s really good in a league like that

18 goal contributions in 22 games isn’t sufficient for an up and coming 21 to linked to Leipzig ... You are a hard one to please 

[paul514]

24 minutes ago, thabucks said:

18 goal contributions in 22 games isn’t sufficient for an up and coming 21 to linked to Leipzig ... You are a hard one to please 

It’s the danish league.... 21 is young but it’s not a youth player. Perhaps you have low expectations of what needs to be brought in?

isn't Eduoard like 22 for example at 20 million.

[barry'sboots]

On 28/03/2021 at 22:49, paul514 said:

The reasons l am so keen on Koopmeiners are numerous...

he’s left footed so brings balance

he is a free kick and penalty specialist 

he’s tall so adds height to set pieces

he scores loads of goals for a DCM

he good at long range passing

his second position is a central defender

hes a leader....

I could go on, he is literally perfect for us.

He looks a big unit though - not unsurprising given his second position is CB.  Does he have the athleticism/mobility/speed to play in the PL?

On 28/03/2021 at 22:49, paul514 said:

I would keep Heaton as there is no reason for us to let an excellent back up keeper go regardless of his wishes.

I'm not sure that is the right approach.  Potentially disrupts the dressing room as well.  I also think he offers value and Steer is decent, and younger, back up to Emi.

On 28/03/2021 at 22:49, paul514 said:

We have been lucky with injuries at centre back, if we want to be a top half team without breaking a sweat we need another central defender who can play on the right hand side. They don’t even have to be expensive, I would be happy enough with a good older player or someone else’s good back up.

Personally, I think this depends upon where Revan is at in his development.  As I said, he looked decent against Liverpool and could stack up as fourth choice CB.

On 28/03/2021 at 22:49, paul514 said:

On to the midfield I think it’s worth listing them.

Nakamba, Luiz, McGinn, Sanson and Ramsey.

Nakamba is a specialist 6, Luiz is a 6/8, Sanson and McGinn are 8’s who can play 6 or 10 and no one knows what Ramsey is yet.

So when looking at the current personnel 4-2-3-1 isn’t optimal. 4-3-3 works better as you can protect Luiz with McGinn and Sanson. 
Now if you bring in a DCM of Koopmeiners quality both formations work he sits next to Luiz in 4-2-3-1 in 4-3-3 he sits alone and lets the two 8’s more freedom to go forward.

I think if you bring in a Koopmeiners or equivalent - and I am all in favour of this type of player - you would sell on Nakamba.

I don't see McGinn or Sanson as a "10" but I do see the two "8"s in tandem - not dissimilar to what we had a few seasons back with Delph and Cleverly.  However, I prefer a more attack minded "10" in there and think, when Barkley was firing, we looked really good with that system e.g. Liverpool and Arsenal wins earlier in the season. 

On 28/03/2021 at 22:49, paul514 said:

on the question of the 10 all the forwards in a Grealish, Olise, Traore and Sarr can play there but you also have McGinn and Sanson who can.

I do think Jack is capable as a "10" but I've grown to like him as a LW and none of the other wide forwards you list play on the left.  Olise is an ACM but I wouldn't want him to come in and be first choice.  I know BT can play there but I want someone with a bit more defensive capability.  And I think, from what I have seen, Sarr is about pace and is not a "10".

On 28/03/2021 at 22:49, paul514 said:

if I couldn’t afford a signing out the list I made it would be a 3rd forward, I’d just make do.

priority order is LB, DCM, Wide Forward, Wide Forward, Striker, Centre back, Wide forward.

For me the priority is:

1. Back up left back.  People say get one to compete full on with Targett but I think this is hard when (1) Targett has been so robust and so good; and (2) you don't have European football to allow rotation.  I think we need to sign a younger talent that can develop but won't let us down if they have to step in.  Henry could be really good but I am not sure whether he would want to come and sit on the bench behind Targett.  The young lad at Derby could be a good shout??
2. Wide right.  This is the one starting spot that I felt we never nailed properly in the summer.  Ideally, we want someone who can replicate what Jack does on the left and create more space.  I see BT as good cover/rotation.  Someone with pace would be ideal as we don't really have raw pace anywhere.  This could be Sarr from what I have read but I haven't really seen that much of him.  Alternatively, Brooks could come in as RW.
3. A "10".  Not Barkley.  We are being linked a lot with Brooks/Buendia and I think either could be ideal from the limited amount I have seen.
4. A DCM.  A big strong athletic defensive midfielder would be perfect.  I haven't seen enough of Koopmeiners to know whether he would be mobile/athletic enough for the PL?

Beyond this, I would like a "9" and, as discussed, Edouard at £20m could be perfect.  I guess this depends how confident the team are with Wes on his return?

A back up wide player/ACM in Olise would be excellent.

I see that as circa £130m spend but with circa £40m coming back in from selling Heaton, Kalanic, Engels, Nakamba, Hourihane, Trez and AEG.

Whether we need a new fourth choice CB depends upon whether Revan is considered strong enough to cover given we haven't got European football.

All this depends how deep NSWE want to go.  With the removal of FFP we could potentially be more aggressive.  I would be very happy if we could do the above business though.

 

[useless]

If we sign either of Brooks or Buendia it will be to play on the right wing, which is where they play most of their football, try playing them as on of our midfield three alongside McGinn and Luiz, or Luiz and Sanson and we'd get over run. For an attacking central midfielder from the championship we're more likely to go for someone like Josh Dasilva or Olise who are both very good attackers and have creativity, but also have good all round general midfield play - a side to Olise's game that surprised me when I watched him a few times recently, as was expecting more of an out and out flair player.

 

[thabucks]

29 minutes ago, paul514 said:

It’s the danish league.... 21 is young but it’s not a youth player. Perhaps you have low expectations of what needs to be brought in?

isn't Eduoard like 22 for example at 20 million.

I have high expectations that Jesper Lindstrom could develop into a very effective and tidy player as he has the attributes required, at a reasonable price and attainability. Also with Leipzig now being reportedly interested surely this highlights his talent?? 

You can also spin this around and say that Koopmeiners at 23 who is still in the U21 squad with one senior cap. Whereas Gravenberch is 18 yet in the Dutch squad with two caps... Koopmeiners goal return  of 15 - minus penalties 7 in the inferior Dutch league is alright but it is no barometer of his suitability to the prem. Davvy Klassen and jordy classie were both very highly rated Dutch midfielders  who came to England and bombed... 

[barry'sboots]

2 hours ago, useless said:

If we sign either of Brooks or Buendia it will be to play on the right wing, which is where they play most of their football, try playing them as on of our midfield three alongside McGinn and Luiz, or Luiz and Sanson and we'd get over run. For an attacking central midfielder from the championship we're more likely to go for someone like Josh Dasilva or Olise who are both very good attackers and have creativity, but also have good all round general midfield play - a side to Olise's game that surprised me when I watched him a few times recently, as was expecting more of an out and out flair player.

 

Whenever I have seen Buendia - not that I am an avid Norwich follower - I am sure that he has played centrally as a 10/ACM.  Brooks is more of a wide player I accept.

I think it depends what you play alongside.  Barkley was a definite "10" and provides little defensive cover yet looked great in our two best performances of the season - Liverpool at home and Arsenal away - and that was with Luiz and McGinn as the double pivot - not the most dominating defensive pair.  If we were to buy a more dominant defensive CM'er then I am sure we could play a "10" as Everton do with Sigurdson.

I haven't seen enough of Dasilva or Olise to comment.  Only youtube clips where they both look very good/well balanced.

I think a front four of:

Brooks/Sarr ----------- Buendia ------------------ Jack

----------------------------- Watkins -----------------------------

with back up off:

Traore -------------------- Olise ------------ JPB or Watkins

---------------------- Edouard or Wes -----------------------------

would see Watkins scoring loads and see us competing for European places.

 

[VillaChris]

9 hours ago, zab6359 said:

I don't think we will be in for a single player in that list.

Why not, many of them would improve our first 11 nevermind the squad which is name of the game this summer.

I'm up for signing the odd prospect but too many of them and we just get a re-run of summers 2012-15 so if we're making 5 signings 3 need to be really proven and then we can have two more in development range e.g. I expect that for whichever CB we get to replace Engels and then perhaps one of the fullback positions.

Further forward it really all should be proven quality by now. Most of those players listed are in those positions.

[VillaChris]

9 hours ago, useless said:

Adam Henshall and Tyler Roberts have a special relationship.

We might not sign any players from that list, but Smith himself has said that we're going to look to sign players looking to get England team, so the general point stands.

Tyler Roberts has about 15 caps for Wales so it won't be him!

I could easily see us being in for Axel again as he actually fits what we need at the back (developing CB who can play there and also fill in at RB when required) and perhaps Tammy.

[paul514]

2 hours ago, thabucks said:

I have high expectations that Jesper Lindstrom could develop into a very effective and tidy player as he has the attributes required, at a reasonable price and attainability. Also with Leipzig now being reportedly interested surely this highlights his talent?? 

You can also spin this around and say that Koopmeiners at 23 who is still in the U21 squad with one senior cap. Whereas Gravenberch is 18 yet in the Dutch squad with two caps... Koopmeiners goal return  of 15 - minus penalties 7 in the inferior Dutch league is alright but it is no barometer of his suitability to the prem. Davvy Klassen and jordy classie were both very highly rated Dutch midfielders  who came to England and bombed... 

I didn’t say he wasn’t good I said his return for that level of league isn’t exceptional which is what I expect if we are to shop in a market like that. I also said the exception to that is when the scouting and data analytics show something else.

Thats all I have said. As for Koopmeiners his stats are awesome and I have watched him so I know he is the real deal.

[paul514]

15 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

Whenever I have seen Buendia - not that I am an avid Norwich follower - I am sure that he has played centrally as a 10/ACM.  Brooks is more of a wide player I accept.

I think it depends what you play alongside.  Barkley was a definite "10" and provides little defensive cover yet looked great in our two best performances of the season - Liverpool at home and Arsenal away - and that was with Luiz and McGinn as the double pivot - not the most dominating defensive pair.  If we were to buy a more dominant defensive CM'er then I am sure we could play a "10" as Everton do with Sigurdson.

I haven't seen enough of Dasilva or Olise to comment.  Only youtube clips where they both look very good/well balanced.

I think a front four of:

Brooks/Sarr ----------- Buendia ------------------ Jack

----------------------------- Watkins -----------------------------

with back up off:

Traore -------------------- Olise ------------ JPB or Watkins

---------------------- Edouard or Wes -----------------------------

would see Watkins scoring loads and see us competing for European places.

 

This, exactly which is what I am going to touch on with a post reply in a minute.

[VillaChris]

4 hours ago, YouUnastanFren said:

If we're going to buy back ups they need to be back ups like Konsa. Young, talented and with a potential ceiling far beyond the original first choice.

Actually think Conor Roberts would be a really good pick up. He reminds me of Cash in how he plays. Usually setting up goals for Swansea bombing on down the right whenever I see their highlights and plays pretty much every game for Wales so loads of experience.

Didn't realise he's 26 in September though, thought he was more 22-23. Only broke through there 3 years ago but given Hourihane's there that gives us a heads up in negotiations I think.

[useless]

Buendia always plays on the right for Norwich with license to drift inside similar to how we use Unrealish on the opposite side, Skipp, Mclean, Jupp or Dowell play in their central midfield. We wouldn't play him in central midfield, since he's not a central midfielder, not sure why there's such an obssession at the moment with playing wingers in central midfield, it's as though people think that the attacking midfield role is almost like a free role, and you can just play anyone there that happens to be a flair player.

[paul514]

3 hours ago, barry'sboots said:

He looks a big unit though - not unsurprising given his second position is CB.  Does he have the athleticism/mobility/speed to play in the PL?

I'm not sure that is the right approach.  Potentially disrupts the dressing room as well.  I also think he offers value and Steer is decent, and younger, back up to Emi.

Personally, I think this depends upon where Revan is at in his development.  As I said, he looked decent against Liverpool and could stack up as fourth choice CB.

I think if you bring in a Koopmeiners or equivalent - and I am all in favour of this type of player - you would sell on Nakamba.

I don't see McGinn or Sanson as a "10" but I do see the two "8"s in tandem - not dissimilar to what we had a few seasons back with Delph and Cleverly.  However, I prefer a more attack minded "10" in there and think, when Barkley was firing, we looked really good with that system e.g. Liverpool and Arsenal wins earlier in the season. 

I do think Jack is capable as a "10" but I've grown to like him as a LW and none of the other wide forwards you list play on the left.  Olise is an ACM but I wouldn't want him to come in and be first choice.  I know BT can play there but I want someone with a bit more defensive capability.  And I think, from what I have seen, Sarr is about pace and is not a "10".

For me the priority is:

1. Back up left back.  People say get one to compete full on with Targett but I think this is hard when (1) Targett has been so robust and so good; and (2) you don't have European football to allow rotation.  I think we need to sign a younger talent that can develop but won't let us down if they have to step in.  Henry could be really good but I am not sure whether he would want to come and sit on the bench behind Targett.  The young lad at Derby could be a good shout??
2. Wide right.  This is the one starting spot that I felt we never nailed properly in the summer.  Ideally, we want someone who can replicate what Jack does on the left and create more space.  I see BT as good cover/rotation.  Someone with pace would be ideal as we don't really have raw pace anywhere.  This could be Sarr from what I have read but I haven't really seen that much of him.  Alternatively, Brooks could come in as RW.
3. A "10".  Not Barkley.  We are being linked a lot with Brooks/Buendia and I think either could be ideal from the limited amount I have seen.
4. A DCM.  A big strong athletic defensive midfielder would be perfect.  I haven't seen enough of Koopmeiners to know whether he would be mobile/athletic enough for the PL?

Beyond this, I would like a "9" and, as discussed, Edouard at £20m could be perfect.  I guess this depends how confident the team are with Wes on his return?

A back up wide player/ACM in Olise would be excellent.

I see that as circa £130m spend but with circa £40m coming back in from selling Heaton, Kalanic, Engels, Nakamba, Hourihane, Trez and AEG.

Whether we need a new fourth choice CB depends upon whether Revan is considered strong enough to cover given we haven't got European football.

All this depends how deep NSWE want to go.  With the removal of FFP we could potentially be more aggressive.  I would be very happy if we could do the above business though.

 

I’ll answer in order of points as it’s a long post.

Yes he does have those attributes.

On Heaton I don’t think it is a case of a bad apple upsetting the cart especially when it’s only one apple so to speak. There’s no point weakening your squad for such a minor reason, players do get injured.

I wouldn’t sell Nakamba as we wouldn’t get much for him and bringing in Koopmeiners means you would only have one specialist 6 if you sold the other.

McGinn can definitely play a 10 role, certainly better than he plays a 6 and he wouldn’t be the first choice 10

Sanson actually does play as a ten one of his best attributes ‘apparently’ is taking shots from 20 yards out apparently, but again he wouldn’t be the automatic first choice 10 in the scenario you and I are talking about.

On the forwards, I feel similarly about Jack, Olise can play all the forward positions. Sarr would be more of a shadow striker in a 10 role, but he is best suited to a wide forward role.

Personally I would prefer the 3 forwards in 4-2-3-1 to switch around as they see fit.

I think there are three priories not four number 1 same as yourself, 2nd is your forth and 3rd is your second.

The 2nd and 3rd priority players have to be first team players of really high quality and as a general rule all the other so called squad players must be genuinely capable of challenging the first team with the potential to over take them in the pecking order, like Konsa has done for example.

everything you said after I feel the same.

I think the figure you propose for the outgoings is achievable if we could find buyers for the all too, how achievable that is I don’t know.

I do feel if the board went out and did something like we are both suggesting that we would be guaranteed a top half finish as a minimum and next season or the season after we could develop into a team that challenges the top 6 without further spending. I would actually go as far as saying job done and after the 22/23 season we would need to reassess where we are going and what we hope to achieve.

Thats what I have in my head anyway.

One last thing I want to mention is how a 4-2-3-1 is supposed to work and why a DCM is so important to us this summer.

The system is supposed to work as two distinct units with four interchangeable players. So the front 4 are the attacking unit with the full backs joining when in an attacking phase of play. So if it is on the left we see Targett around Grealish but Cash shouldn’t be as forward as Targett unless the play switches to the right.

The defensive unit is the back four plus the 2 DCM’s. The DCM on the left should drop into Targetts position when he goes forward to fill in leaving the other DCM in position and Visa versa for if it were the right hand side. That is the strength of that system which it seems some people don’t appreciate. The role of the 10 is the same as the wide forwards, to press from the front in a defensive capacity not to help out the two DCM’s and this is one of our big failings this year due to the press not being up to standard and the DCM’s not doing as good a job as they should on that fill in.

[Zatman]

22 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Actually think Conor Roberts would be a really good pick up. He reminds me of Cash in how he plays. Usually setting up goals for Swansea bombing on down the right whenever I see their highlights and plays pretty much every game for Wales so loads of experience.

Didn't realise he's 26 in September though, thought he was more 22-23. Only broke through there 3 years ago but given Hourihane's there that gives us a heads up in negotiations I think.

just been sent off, think you jinxed him  

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, useless said:

Buendia always plays on the right for Norwich with license to drift inside similar to how we use Unrealish on the opposite side, Skipp, Mclean, Jupp or Dowell play in their central midfield. We wouldn't play him in central midfield, since he's not a central midfielder, not sure why there's such an obssession at the moment with playing wingers in central midfield, it's as though people think that the attacking midfield role is almost like a free role, and you can just play anyone there that happens to be a flair player.

Did you mean that? If so I love it! 

[useless]

Of course I meant it, it's typical of something I would think of.

Edited March 30, 2021 by useless

[VillaChris]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

just been sent off, think you jinxed him  

Dan James scoring at least.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, paul514 said:

I’ll answer in order of points as it’s a long post.

Yes he does have those attributes.

On Heaton I don’t think it is a case of a bad apple upsetting the cart especially when it’s only one apple so to speak. There’s no point weakening your squad for such a minor reason, players do get injured.

I wouldn’t sell Nakamba as we wouldn’t get much for him and bringing in Koopmeiners means you would only have one specialist 6 if you sold the other.

McGinn can definitely play a 10 role, certainly better than he plays a 6 and he wouldn’t be the first choice 10

Sanson actually does play as a ten one of his best attributes ‘apparently’ is taking shots from 20 yards out apparently, but again he wouldn’t be the automatic first choice 10 in the scenario you and I are talking about.

On the forwards, I feel similarly about Jack, Olise can play all the forward positions. Sarr would be more of a shadow striker in a 10 role, but he is best suited to a wide forward role.

Personally I would prefer the 3 forwards in 4-2-3-1 to switch around as they see fit.

I think there are three priories not four number 1 same as yourself, 2nd is your forth and 3rd is your second.

The 2nd and 3rd priority players have to be first team players of really high quality and as a general rule all the other so called squad players must be genuinely capable of challenging the first team with the potential to over take them in the pecking order, like Konsa has done for example.

everything you said after I feel the same.

I think the figure you propose for the outgoings is achievable if we could find buyers for the all too, how achievable that is I don’t know.

I do feel if the board went out and did something like we are both suggesting that we would be guaranteed a top half finish as a minimum and next season or the season after we could develop into a team that challenges the top 6 without further spending. I would actually go as far as saying job done and after the 22/23 season we would need to reassess where we are going and what we hope to achieve.

Thats what I have in my head anyway.

One last thing I want to mention is how a 4-2-3-1 is supposed to work and why a DCM is so important to us this summer.

The system is supposed to work as two distinct units with four interchangeable players. So the front 4 are the attacking unit with the full backs joining when in an attacking phase of play. So if it is on the left we see Targett around Grealish but Cash shouldn’t be as forward as Targett unless the play switches to the right.

The defensive unit is the back four plus the 2 DCM’s. The DCM on the left should drop into Targetts position when he goes forward to fill in leaving the other DCM in position and Visa versa for if it were the right hand side. That is the strength of that system which it seems some people don’t appreciate. The role of the 10 is the same as the wide forwards, to press from the front in a defensive capacity not to help out the two DCM’s and this is one of our big failings this year due to the press not being up to standard and the DCM’s not doing as good a job as they should on that fill in.

That is precisiely, how I see it( In Bold)...FWIW

Edited March 30, 2021 by TRO

[barry'sboots]

50 minutes ago, TRO said:

That is precisiely, how I see it( In Bold)...FWIW

And the way it worked so well at Liverpool - in a different system but with the full backs really encouraged to push on.  They so miss Henderson from their midfield for his ability to drop in and cover, particularly TAA.

I think our press has been woeful in the last 10 or so games but, with broadly the same team earlier in the season, was excellent.  Maybe COVID has had an impact in this respect.