Ross Barkley

[wilko154]

1 hour ago, Thug said:

Apologies, my ‘bullshit’ wasn’t aimed at the person I was quoting, rather than the notion itself, if that makes sense? The horses for courses is indeed a valid argument - but my point is that you shouldn’t need to buy a top pedigree horse to leave out of the international Derby’s and run them in the local meet.

My main point is that ‘elite’ players shouldn’t be the ones needing easier minutes.  It’s the Jacob Ramsey’s of this world who should be being bled in in these so called ‘easier’ games - not a veteran of 200+ premier league games and England caps and a valuation and wage packet to back that up. And I’m not buying the fitness aspect either - he’s had almost a quarter of a season to get back up to speed after his return from injury.

My second point is there are fine margins between the teams in the premier league, and in all honesty I don’t see Burnley as being significantly better than Sheffield utd - but we lost that game as a direct result of failing to control the game (yvmv)

There are fine margins in the premier league, and Im sorry, but on recent form, playing RB is more likely to lose us points than to win them regardless of the opposition.

We shouldn’t play him in ANY game until he’s willing to get stuck in if and when he needs to, and do his ‘ting’ if and when that is required.  An IN-GAME adjustment of role - not 75 minutes of being invisible before being dragged off when it’s too little too late.

He can come on as a sub, and show his willingness to work for the team and earn his way back into the team.

Completely agree, and my comments regarding him suiting the Sheff Utd & Newcastle games were meant as you mentioned, he doesn't deserve to play in them after recent performances.

For me Ramsey now has his shirt; Grealish will take it when he's back as currently El Ghazi is deserving his place at left wing.

Nakamba and Luiz are both competing for a slot in the side; and Sanson is currently ahead of Barkley competing for the next slot.

It's now up to Barkley to prove himself on the training pitch and in cameo appearances. It's the way a good squad works; you only have to look at Tottenham and how they've handled Gareth Bale, arguably the best player on the pitch today and now surely in the first team going forward.

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

Completely agree, and my comments regarding him suiting the Sheff Utd & Newcastle games were meant as you mentioned, he doesn't deserve to play in them after recent performances.

For me Ramsey now has his shirt; Grealish will take it when he's back as currently El Ghazi is deserving his place at left wing.

Nakamba and Luiz are both competing for a slot in the side; and Sanson is currently ahead of Barkley competing for the next slot.

It's now up to Barkley to prove himself on the training pitch and in cameo appearances. It's the way a good squad works; you only have to look at Tottenham and how they've handled Gareth Bale, arguably the best player on the pitch today and now surely in the first team going forward.

I’ll be surprised if Barkley and Luiz don’t start against Sheff Utd, really harsh on Nakamba and Ramsey but I think it’s what Smith will do.  I’m not saying it is or isn’t what I’d do but i think it’s what Smith will do.

[Spoony]

Nakamba surely has to start. His last two games he’s been one of the best players.

And Barkley has to stay on the bench / be sent back to Chelsea. We are a better team without him. 

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, Spoony said:

Nakamba surely has to start. His last two games he’s been one of the best players.

And Barkley has to stay on the bench / be sent back to Chelsea. We are a better team without him. 

When Nakamba played well last time he was dropped next game.  Smith played a certain way yesterday for a specific tactical plan, against Sheff Utd he’ll go back to his Plan A.

Edited February 28, 2021 by nick76

[Thug]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

When Nakamba played well last time he was dropped next game.  Smith played a certain way yesterday for a specific tactical plan, against Sheff Utd he’ll go back to his Plan A.

I don’t think you’re wrong to be honest 

 

but plan A sucks.

[Mazrim]

I've never thought Barkley was consistent enough to be a truly elite player, but there are some good reasons why he's off the pace lately. Not just Ross but McGinn, Luiz and so on. At times they have needing taking out of the starting line up, our lack of depth has not allowed it. Hopefully now we can to a degree.

So Barkley will be back but should only be when he's fully ready and needs to prove he's worth it.

[Adam2003]

2 hours ago, Thug said:

Apologies, my ‘bullshit’ wasn’t aimed at the person I was quoting, rather than the notion itself, if that makes sense? The horses for courses is indeed a valid argument - but my point is that you shouldn’t need to buy a top pedigree horse to leave out of the international Derby’s and run them in the local meet.

My main point is that ‘elite’ players shouldn’t be the ones needing easier minutes.  It’s the Jacob Ramsey’s of this world who should be being bled in in these so called ‘easier’ games - not a veteran of 200+ premier league games and England caps and a valuation and wage packet to back that up. And I’m not buying the fitness aspect either - he’s had almost a quarter of a season to get back up to speed after his return from injury.

My second point is there are fine margins between the teams in the premier league, and in all honesty I don’t see Burnley as being significantly better than Sheffield utd - but we lost that game as a direct result of failing to control the game (yvmv)

There are fine margins in the premier league, and Im sorry, but on recent form, playing RB is more likely to lose us points than to win them regardless of the opposition.

We shouldn’t play him in ANY game until he’s willing to get stuck in if and when he needs to, and do his ‘ting’ if and when that is required.  An IN-GAME adjustment of role - not 75 minutes of being invisible before being dragged off when it’s too little too late.

He can come on as a sub, and show his willingness to work for the team and earn his way back into the team.

 

I don’t think we are really disagreeing except I still think it’s the referring to any game as “easier minutes” that’s the sticking point for me. As you say any PL game is difficult - so it’s more about style of player needed for which occasion.

As I say I’d be starting Ramsey-Sanson-Nakamba against Sheff Utd so this isn’t a call for Barkley, just that I really think horses for courses is so important and something Villa have never really done in my memory so I hope as we strengthen the squad we start seeing it more.

[tinker]

If Barkley get his chance next game its arguably the most important game in his career, I just hope he understands that and I'm sure he does. I would start him without hesitation 

When we're going to have a lot of the ball we need players that can use it offensively and Barkley is one of those players, Nakamba isn't, he's a spoiler but give him time on the ball and he will waste it if history repeats itself. If we are 2 goals up then Nakamba should come on if the opposition are pushing us back and having the majority of possession . 

Let's really see what Barkley is made of before we destroy what remains of his career.  

Edited February 28, 2021 by tinker

[PaulC]

2 hours ago, nick76 said:

I’ll be surprised if Barkley and Luiz don’t start against Sheff Utd, really harsh on Nakamba and Ramsey but I think it’s what Smith will do.  I’m not saying it is or isn’t what I’d do but i think it’s what Smith will do.

Yes I think you're right. Sheffield United dont score goals but are hard to break down so maybe Barkley will play

[abdulaziz1]

4 hours ago, Mazrim said:

I've never thought Barkley was consistent enough to be a truly elite player, but there are some good reasons why he's off the pace lately. Not just Ross but McGinn, Luiz and so on. At times they have needing taking out of the starting line up, our lack of depth has not allowed it. Hopefully now we can to a degree.

So Barkley will be back but should only be when he's fully ready and needs to prove he's worth it.

This lack of depth is a bit of a myth, our depth is better than some other squads. Actually some of our bench players earlier the season are now considered first team players. It’s the fear of trying which is making that. Especially for midfield we have 6 good players. 
It’s Grealish, Targett, Cash and Watkins that are irreplaceable. I do rate Davis but he’s nowhere near Watkins level. Elmo is ok but again huge difference. Targett and Grealish are another level. 

You’ll not find a lot of players to replace Jack in the whole league let alone Villa. 

[nick76]

13 minutes ago, abdulaziz1 said:

This lack of depth is a bit of a myth, our depth is better than some other squads. Actually some of our bench players earlier the season are now considered first team players. It’s the fear of trying which is making that. Especially for midfield we have 6 good players. 
It’s Grealish, Targett, Cash and Watkins that are irreplaceable. I do rate Davis but he’s nowhere near Watkins level. Elmo is ok but again huge difference. Targett and Grealish are another level. 

You’ll not find a lot of players to replace Jack in the whole league let alone Villa. 

Got to disagree somewhat, our depth is poor especially compared to the teams around us.

We are great at Keeper with Emi and Heaton

Taylor is poor compared to Targett.  Elmo sadly is now not good enough compared to Cash.  Engels and Hause are not good enough at centre bacK. Davis is poor compared to Watkins. So that’s five  positions of the team that are poor or at least poor back up.  We want alternatives not back up but we are growing so accept back up at the moment but we have half a team of poor back ups.

Now midfield and wide forwards becomes a debate.  Jack is irreplaceable obviously.  But for arguments sake with the rest let’s say we have good alternatives in midfield and wide forward although for me outside of Jack and potentially Traore we lack creativity.  Barkley should be.  Trez and El Ghazi are just direct players. ( I think Jack and Ollie are our main creators in the team season outside of the fullbacks).

So for me we half the team with poor back up, worse still in defence and upfront.  We have 5 positions that have good alternatives but in those positions have poor creative alternatives.  That’s my opinion anyway.

[Junxs]

No way should he come straight back into the team v Shef Utd. He's had his chance, 8 games in a row where hes been poor. Ramsey had a good game, and he deserves a run in the side, and Sanson is still patiently waiting for his full debut. As far as I'm concerned Barkley can wait his turn and barring an injury crisis I'd be fine if he doesn't start another game this season.

Giving Ramsey a run of starts could mean saving millions in the summer, I'd rather we used the rest of the season to develop him.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Junxs

[Junxs]

On 22/02/2021 at 15:24, Mister_a said:

I wonder if he's made it home yet.

 

 

Ha! The incredible sulk!

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, Junxs said:

No way should he come straight back into the team v Shef Utd. He's had his chance, 8 games in a row where hes been poor. Ramsey had a good game, and he deserves a run in the side, and Sanson is still patiently waiting for his full debut. As far as I'm concerned Barkley can wait his turn and barring an injury crisis I'd be fine if he doesn't start another game this season.

Giving Ramsey a run of starts could mean saving millions in the summer, I'd rather we used the rest of the season to develop him.

Think you might be disappointed mate in the week, my guess he’ll be back.

[Delphinho123]

4 minutes ago, Junxs said:

No way should he come straight back into the team v Shef Utd. He's had his chance, 8 games in a row where hes been poor. Ramsey had a good game, and he deserves a run in the side, and Sanson is still patiently waiting for his full debut. As far as I'm concerned Barkley can wait his turn and barring an injury crisis I'd be fine if he doesn't start another game this season.

Giving Ramsey a run of starts could mean saving millions in the summer, I'd rather we used the rest of the season to develop him.

Yeh, I’m with you. 

Personally, I think Barkley is now behind Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey and Sanson. 

Nakamba is a little different as he plays a specialist role but I just don’t see a place for Barkley at the minute. 

If we’re going to rest McGinn against Sheff Utd, then Sanson comes in. 

[PaulC]

53 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Got to disagree somewhat, our depth is poor especially compared to the teams around us.

We are great at Keeper with Emi and Heaton

Taylor is poor compared to Targett.  Elmo sadly is now not good enough compared to Cash.  Engels and Hause are not good enough at centre bacK. Davis is poor compared to Watkins. So that’s five  positions of the team that are poor or at least poor back up.  We want alternatives not back up but we are growing so accept back up at the moment but we have half a team of poor back ups.

Now midfield and wide forwards becomes a debate.  Jack is irreplaceable obviously.  But for arguments sake with the rest let’s say we have good alternatives in midfield and wide forward although for me outside of Jack and potentially Traore we lack creativity.  Barkley should be.  Trez and El Ghazi are just direct players. ( I think Jack and Ollie are our main creators in the team season outside of the fullbacks).

So for me we half the team with poor back up, worse still in defence and upfront.  We have 5 positions that have good alternatives but in those positions have poor creative alternatives.  That’s my opinion anyway.

Hause I think is decent backup  the rest I agree on

[Laughable Chimp]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Got to disagree somewhat, our depth is poor especially compared to the teams around us.

We are great at Keeper with Emi and Heaton

Taylor is poor compared to Targett.  Elmo sadly is now not good enough compared to Cash.  Engels and Hause are not good enough at centre bacK. Davis is poor compared to Watkins. So that’s five  positions of the team that are poor or at least poor back up.  We want alternatives not back up but we are growing so accept back up at the moment but we have half a team of poor back ups.

Now midfield and wide forwards becomes a debate.  Jack is irreplaceable obviously.  But for arguments sake with the rest let’s say we have good alternatives in midfield and wide forward although for me outside of Jack and potentially Traore we lack creativity.  Barkley should be.  Trez and El Ghazi are just direct players. ( I think Jack and Ollie are our main creators in the team season outside of the fullbacks).

So for me we half the team with poor back up, worse still in defence and upfront.  We have 5 positions that have good alternatives but in those positions have poor creative alternatives.  That’s my opinion anyway.

How many of the teams around us do you think actually have a lot of good alternatives? I don't follow the other teams enough but I feel like if you ask their fanbases, they'd say the same thing about they don't have many good alternatives to play either. I think having a squad with lots of quality backups all over the team is actually very rare.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Laughable Chimp

[useless]

Yesterday we were without Grealish, Cash, Barkley and Luiz, that's four players that have helped us get to where we are, and yet we were still able to put in a very good performance without them, and were still able to leave out the likes of Trezeguet and Sanson, and others that have performed well for us.

The weakness of our squad is exaggerated, I think when some say that we have a weak squad they mean that we don't have two top class players in every position, but that's the same for most sides, for a team in it's second season in the premier league our squad overall is pretty decent.

 

[Stevo985]

At least we can put to bed the ridiculous rumour that there was a clause in his loan saying he had to start every game

[nick76]

48 minutes ago, useless said:

Yesterday we were without Grealish, Cash, Barkley and Luiz, that's four players that have helped us get to where we are, and yet we were still able to put in a very good performance without them, and were still able to leave out the likes of Trezeguet and Sanson, and others that have performed well for us.

The weakness of our squad is exaggerated, I think when some say that we have a weak squad they mean that we don't have two top class players in every position, but that's the same for most sides, for a team in it's second season in the premier league our squad overall is pretty decent.

 

Yeah and that links to point I spoke about above in my last comment...Grealish, Barkley, Luiz, Trez and Sanson in 6 of the positions we are comfortable in  but let’s imagine if Mings, Konsa and Watkins were out instead in our weaker back up areas...we lose our energy upfront that we have from Watkins that we haven’t got an alternative and our 13 clean sheet games solid defence is badly exposed and poor Emi will be target practice.

There is no doubt that a lot of our improvement this season is our defence this season and keeping clean sheets and ur back up there is poor.  Losing Ollie as well would be devastating.