Ross Barkley

[Adam2003]

5 hours ago, AvonVillain said:

Sorry if this has already been said, but it'll be really interesting to see how Barkley responds to being dropped for a youth player. I think we can (almost) guarantee he won't throw a strop when being subbed again.

We have just seen a very real example where Hourihane said as soon as Ramsey was picked ahead of him he knew he was done at Villa... could go either way.

[AvfcRigo82]

9 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

It’s frustrating that we stick with him as long as we have done since his injury. 

I think we’d be 2/3 points better off now had we played with Ramsey/Nakamba in the middle for the last 6 weeks. 

Correct, I agree.

His performances of late have held us back as a whole and he's been more of a hindrance than anything.

 

9 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Just on Barkley as an individual. I don’t know where he goes from here.

Back to Chelsea in a hurry ideally.

As someone else stated, his next team will probably be someone like Newcastle or a team that's mid table that will just do enough to avoid relegation - which match his performances and attitude as a player.

[Keyblade]

If he's going to come back into the team, Sheffield United is as good a game as any. Especially since it's a midweek game and he had zero minutes in his legs yesterday. Give McGinn a rest and have him ready for Wolves.

[DCJonah]

Just now, Keyblade said:

If he's going to come back into the team, Sheffield United is as good a game as any. Especially since it's a midweek game and he had zero minutes in his legs yesterday. Give McGinn a rest and have him ready for Wolves.

Yep, I wouldn't be against him returning for that game. I'd drop ramsay instead though. 

[Panto_Villan]

10 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Generic post for any player thread....

Person A: I don't think he's playing well.

Person B: YOU HATE HIM.

Person A: no he's been out of form.

Person B:  YOU DONT WANT HIM TO DO WELL.

Person A: I think others offer more.

Person B: SEE I TOLD YOU SO, I REST MY CASE

The problem is that about 30% of posters see that a player is playing badly and then then extrapolate from that that the player is a fundamentally lazy person / some kind of charlatan stealing a living / not interested in football, and start dealing in personal abuse. If you can't see that happening then you're blind.

I don't think I've seen anyone saying Barkley should still be starting for us in the last week, because he's been terrible recently. I'm glad he's been dropped. We all agree his performances have been bad.

I don't agree that necessarily makes him a bad person or that he should never play for the club again in any circumstances, and defending people who do think that sort of thing seems a weird hill to die on. But whatever floats your boat I guess.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Panto_Villan

[DCJonah]

10 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Generic post for any player thread....

Person A: I don't think he's playing well.

Person B: YOU HATE HIM.

Person A: no he's been out of form.

Person B:  YOU DONT WANT HIM TO DO WELL.

Person A: I think others offer more.

Person B: SEE I TOLD YOU SO, I REST MY CASE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amazing that you think this. 

[AvfcRigo82]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

If he's going to come back into the team, Sheffield United is as good a game as any. Especially since it's a midweek game and he had zero minutes in his legs yesterday. Give McGinn a rest and have him ready for Wolves.

I disagree.

I don't see why we should break up a winning side to accomdate this pony and risk damaging moral to the rest of the squad.

We are much better as a team without him than with him.

[DCJonah]

9 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

It’s frustrating that we stick with him as long as we have done since his injury. 

I think we’d be 2/3 points better off now had we played with Ramsey/Nakamba in the middle for the last 6 weeks. 

Like I say, I genuinely don’t want to see him in the side again. Why? Because it will mean that whoever’s keeping him out is playing well and it’s working for the team. 

Just on Barkley as an individual. I don’t know where he goes from here. He strikes me as an arrogant individual who believed the hype as a youngster. Football has changed a lot in the last 2/3 years with teams being fitter and pressing harder. He absolutely has to adapt his game if he wants to remain a premier league player. He’ll get his 100k for another 18 months or so I imagine but I can’t see him getting even half for his next contract. 

He got the winner against Southampton and we deserved to beat arsenal with him playing.

So whilst your statement is true, you also need to acknowledge that we might have less than 6 pts in those games without him. 

I think the contributions he's made this season get forgotten way too easily with Ross.  

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I disagree.

I don't see why we should break up a winning side to accomdate this pony and risk damaging moral to the rest of the squad.

We are much better as a team without him than with him.

It's more to rest McGinn to be honest. He's the only one who hasn't been rotated in that midfield. Not sure the insults are warranted either. He's not playing well, he's been rightfully dropped. But he's still a useful squad member while we're still paying his wages. He should go back to the bench (hopefully for Jack!) against Wolves.

[AvfcRigo82]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

It's more to rest McGinn to be honest. He's the only one who hasn't been rotated in that midfield. Not sure the insults are warranted either. He's not playing well, he's been rightfully dropped. But he's still a useful squad member while we're still paying his wages. He should go back to the bench (hopefully for Jack!) against Wolves.

On the rotation side I would bring in Luiz or Sanson to replace McGinn tbh.

I would say a pony is a fair comparison of him as a player rather than insult - All show and very little effort.

I would rather us focus on developing our own players too tbh. I think Sheffield Utd would be another ideal game for Ramsey to get more PL experience under his belt rather than accommodate someone that shows very little desire in games who isn't even our player.

[Delphinho123]

32 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

He got the winner against Southampton and we deserved to beat arsenal with him playing.

So whilst your statement is true, you also need to acknowledge that we might have less than 6 pts in those games without him. 

I think the contributions he's made this season get forgotten way too easily with Ross.  

I agree totally and Ross deserved his place in the side earlier in the season. He was superb against Arsenal in particular. 

My post was aimed more at his performances since his injury. No way should he have kept his place as long as he did but credit to Smith for changing it and recognising that it was holding us back. 

[alreadyexists]

I hope he comes back reinvigorated after a spell out of the side. That can only be a good thing for us to win without him in the side. If he comes back in it’ll be on merit.

[cheltenham_villa]

5 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

We have just seen a very real example where Hourihane said as soon as Ramsey was picked ahead of him he knew he was done at Villa... could go either way.

I think a slight difference in scenarios, for Hourihane, he had already spend 18 months as a squad player failing to establish himself and now another young player introduced ahead of him. Ramsey was the final confirmation needed that his chances were very limited.

For Barkley it's currently one game. Partly form and partly the system Deano wanted to go with. I think if he doesnt come back in against a side like Sheffield where you will have more of the ball and need to break down a side, it will take more explaining.

[wilko154]

This thread is weird.

People arguing that they don't hate Barkley whilst berating him after every game; can't we just get behind every player in the squad for a season?!

Ross was taken out of the firing line yesterday; it was a game that didn't really suit him against a high energy team. You need legs in games like that with players who can get about the pitch and put themselves about, that isn't Barkley's game.

Against Sheffield United this week and Newcastle in two weeks; with Grealish back (hopefully) it will suit Barkley much better in a game where he has time to get on the ball and play.

It's all about utilising the squad and it's something we haven't done well enough this season up until yesterday. Dropping Luiz and Barkley was for the good of the team and we gained 3 points from it. I for one hope to see Barkley back in the squad and firing again soon as he's a brilliant player, as shown in his early season performances.

[Villan_of_oz]

1 hour ago, wilko154 said:

This thread is weird.

People arguing that they don't hate Barkley whilst berating him after every game; can't we just get behind every player in the squad for a season?!

Ross was taken out of the firing line yesterday; it was a game that didn't really suit him against a high energy team. You need legs in games like that with players who can get about the pitch and put themselves about, that isn't Barkley's game.

Against Sheffield United this week and Newcastle in two weeks; with Grealish back (hopefully) it will suit Barkley much better in a game where he has time to get on the ball and play.

It's all about utilising the squad and it's something we haven't done well enough this season up until yesterday. Dropping Luiz and Barkley was for the good of the team and we gained 3 points from it. I for one hope to see Barkley back in the squad and firing again soon as he's a brilliant player, as shown in his early season performances.

I can berate someone and not hate them, if it's even berating..... hate is such a strong word and I'm sick of people using it as a lazy way to articulate themselves. Lazy posters defending lazy Barkley

Edited February 28, 2021 by Villan_of_oz

[DCJonah]

39 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

I can berate someone and not hate them, if it's even berating..... hate is such a strong word and I'm sick of people using at as a lazy way to articulate themselves. Lazy posters defending lazy Barkley

We won a game, he didn't play and you choose that moment to mock and criticise him. I'd say that looks like you hate him. 

[gwi1890]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

He got the winner against Southampton and we deserved to beat arsenal with him playing.

So whilst your statement is true, you also need to acknowledge that we might have less than 6 pts in those games without him. 

I think the contributions he's made this season get forgotten way too easily with Ross.  

I have no problem with him being here, Rotation is key  he can’t start every game because he’s Ross Barkley, Sheffield Utd would be a good game for him or Sanson , I think we’ll need Ramsey’s energy for the Wolves game 

[Thug]

1 hour ago, wilko154 said:

This thread is weird.

People arguing that they don't hate Barkley whilst berating him after every game; can't we just get behind every player in the squad for a season?!

Ross was taken out of the firing line yesterday; it was a game that didn't really suit him against a high energy team. You need legs in games like that with players who can get about the pitch and put themselves about, that isn't Barkley's game.

Against Sheffield United this week and Newcastle in two weeks; with Grealish back (hopefully) it will suit Barkley much better in a game where he has time to get on the ball and play.

It's all about utilising the squad and it's something we haven't done well enough this season up until yesterday. Dropping Luiz and Barkley was for the good of the team and we gained 3 points from it. I for one hope to see Barkley back in the squad and firing again soon as he's a brilliant player, as shown in his early season performances.

The problem is that you need legs in every premier league game.

I’d love to see Barkley back in, but only when he’s willing to get a little dirty in battle.

Ready to go in for a 50-50 where there’s a chance he might get hurt.

Until he’s ready to put the villa cause above his desire not to get injured, someone who IS should get the nod.

Also, who should make way for him, and why?  ‘I’m sorry son, but you can’t play against Sheffield United, because they’re shit, and Ross needs a shit team to play against.’

We lose control of these games exactly because of the notion that these teams are shit.  You need to control a game. That doesn’t necessarily mean with possession, but rather with position.  Alan shearer said yesterday, that although Leeds had the lions share of the game, it was us who looked better, and tactically in control of the game.  
We don’t owe Barkley any easy games.  He needs to earn his place by showing he’s willing to do his bit.  If he does that I have NO objection, and indeed would welcome him back.

But this bullshit about letting him play against sheff utd or Newcastle because they’re a bit shit is just the wrong mentality. 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Thug

[Adam2003]

2 hours ago, Thug said:

But this bullshit about letting him play against sheff utd or Newcastle because they’re a bit shit is just the wrong mentality. 

Obviously the people saying they would start him aren’t thinking “let him start because they’re a bit shit.” They’re thinking “we will likely dominate the ball but need a couple of creative flashes of inspiration against teams defending deep; Barkley is more likely to provide that versus a hard-running midfielder like Nakamba who was vital against Leeds.”

I am not saying I agree either way and someone is perfectly entitled to say they don’t think Barkley is the answer in that scenario, but the trite dismissal of people suggesting tactical flexibility as letting some players play against shit teams is silly when we have so often dropped points against those teams over the years by not adapting our horses to their courses.

[Thug]

1 hour ago, Adam2003 said:

Obviously the people saying they would start him aren’t thinking “let him start because they’re a bit shit.” They’re thinking “we will likely dominate the ball but need a couple of creative flashes of inspiration against teams defending deep; Barkley is more likely to provide that versus a hard-running midfielder like Nakamba who was vital against Leeds.”

I am not saying I agree either way and someone is perfectly entitled to say they don’t think Barkley is the answer in that scenario, but the trite dismissal of people suggesting tactical flexibility as letting some players play against shit teams is silly when we have so often dropped points against those teams over the years by not adapting our horses to their courses.

Apologies, my ‘bullshit’ wasn’t aimed at the person I was quoting, rather than the notion itself, if that makes sense? The horses for courses is indeed a valid argument - but my point is that you shouldn’t need to buy a top pedigree horse to leave out of the international Derby’s and run them in the local meet.

My main point is that ‘elite’ players shouldn’t be the ones needing easier minutes.  It’s the Jacob Ramsey’s of this world who should be being bled in in these so called ‘easier’ games - not a veteran of 200+ premier league games and England caps and a valuation and wage packet to back that up. And I’m not buying the fitness aspect either - he’s had almost a quarter of a season to get back up to speed after his return from injury.

My second point is there are fine margins between the teams in the premier league, and in all honesty I don’t see Burnley as being significantly better than Sheffield utd - but we lost that game as a direct result of failing to control the game (yvmv)

There are fine margins in the premier league, and Im sorry, but on recent form, playing RB is more likely to lose us points than to win them regardless of the opposition.

We shouldn’t play him in ANY game until he’s willing to get stuck in if and when he needs to, and do his ‘ting’ if and when that is required.  An IN-GAME adjustment of role - not 75 minutes of being invisible before being dragged off when it’s too little too late.

He can come on as a sub, and show his willingness to work for the team and earn his way back into the team.