Bertrand Traoré

[KenjiOgiwara]

20 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

He’s such an odd winger. He’s not particularly quick and he is probably the most one footed player I’ve seen since Merson (he weren’t half bad) but he’s got a lot of really effective attributes. 

Yes he cuts inside a lot, but so does Grealish onto his right. Like the commentator said on my South African stream last night, just because he always cuts in, it’s still really dangerous if you can’t stop it, which a lot of defenders can’t. How many times does he cut in and get tackled? Not very often. This means we keep the ball and our fullbacks can overlap which is clearly the tactic here.

Time will tell if he’s the answer to our issues on the right but he was damn impressive last night and he’s an improvement on Trezeguet quality wise. 

I’m warming to him and I really want him to do well here. His goal last night was absolutely superb. Only good players do stuff like that. 

Not sure about that. He's better at 5-a-side technical stuff, but this league requires work rate and a lot more. Very different players, but Trez has been much better this season than Traore.

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Not sure about that. He's better at 5-a-side technical stuff, but this league requires work rate and a lot more. Very different players, but Trez has been much better this season than Traore.

Just absolute nonsense. He was bombing up and down the pitch, covering well defensively - you've absolutely no evidence for your assertions besides your preconceived notions of what type of player he is. 

Would it kill you to just get behind the player or is hoping he fails so you're right more important to you?

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

'Bombing'

30 years of watching us I've hardly seen a player slow us down so much. Bombing lol. Good one.

Nice better fan dig though. Sure nobody is quite the fan you are.

Edited December 22, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara

[sparrow1988]

1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

'Bombing'

30 years of watching us I've hardly seen a player slow us down so much. Bombing lol. Good one.

Hm, you've missed the last 4 years obviously with Neil Taylor playing.

[Rolta]

@KenjiOgiwara I'd second that I didn't see a problem with his workrate, and your posts when he signed do suggest that back in the summer you just decided you weren't going to like him. He's a five a side player now? OK whatever. He did a lot of good in the last game—that's not to say he's the be all and everything though. It was only West Brom. But he did look good.

[KenjiOgiwara]

Just now, sparrow1988 said:

Hm, you've missed the last 4 years obviously with Neil Taylor playing.

Taylor is dog shit attackingly, decent defensively, but as a player he has way more urgency than Traore methinks. So no. 

[Follyfoot]

32 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

He will be found out if he keeps cutting inside everytime.

Defenders will start forcing him outside and then he becomes a liability.

Jack and to an extent Trezeguet are less predictable. They can both go outside and inside and still cause danger.

Not if Watkins keeps pulling the other way he won't 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Follyfoot

[Steero113]

8 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Taylor is dog shit attackingly, decent defensively, but as a player he has way more urgency than Traore methinks. So no. 

Excuse me, as of yesterday we are now referring to him as the "Welsh Roberto Carlos" thanks very much...

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

12 minutes ago, Rolta said:

@KenjiOgiwara I'd second that I didn't see a problem with his workrate, and your posts when he signed do suggest that back in the summer you just decided you weren't going to like him. He's a five a side player now? OK whatever. He did a lot of good in the last game—that's not to say he's the be all and everything though. It was only West Brom. But he did look good.

Yep, I agree. 

And no I didn't decide I wasn't going to like him. I really wish people stopped putting words into people's mouths here just cause they have a different opinion.

Did I wish we signed a better player? Yes. 

Did I think we overpaid for a player that pretty much failed in his last club, and despite this we paid them twice the outlay to bring him here? Yes. 

Do I think he's a good choice for right winger here? No.

Do I think he can be a decent rotation player. Yes.

Does he have the pace we require on right? No. 

Has he played more shite than good? Yes.

Does he need more time to get consistent? Yes. 

Is he a young player likely to develop a lot more? No. 

Does all of this mean I don't like him? No. 

**** tiresome to do this stuff cause people can't accept that some people see things differently. Same absurdity with AEG. 

I don't have preconceived opinions on any players. Even if I think they are poor they can easily win me over by performing well, but one swallow doesn't make a wife or however the expression goes. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara

[Mic09]

22 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

30 years of watching us I've hardly seen a player slow us down so much. Bombing lol. Good one.

I think that a player that slows us down the most is Grealish.

And that is not a bad thing at all.

[KenjiOgiwara]

Just now, Mic09 said:

I think that a player that slows us down the most is Grealish.

And that is not a bad thing at all.

Nah. Grealish slows us down if he wants to or we need to, but he can also turn it up to max. If Traore did they same I'd warm to him much more. Grealish also is very comfortable at challenging his fullback, while Traore more of than not passes it straight back. It's quite confusing cause the little I saw of Traore before this season he looked pretty quick, so I'm not sure why he isn't just powering past them. Maybe French defenders just are much slower than PL ones. 

[sne]

10 hours ago, MaVilla said:

Thierry Henry scored a similar goal many years ago, probably the only time I have ever seen a goal quite  like it.

That was my reaction with that goal, looked exactly like the type of finishes Henry used to do. He scored a bunch of goals like that. Lovely finish.

Not identical with him being right footed and all but a couple of the same type in here.

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by sne

[Indigo]

8 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Not if Watkins keeps pulling the other way he won't 

Exactly, not just that but Cash overlapping too. Think people are being too short-sighted in thinking the lack of a strong right foot suddenly makes him completely ineffective once teams "work it out" as if the point of attacking players like him (and the team itself) isn't to have the ability to get past basic defensive tactics like that. Better players than Traore like Robben, Di Maria, David Silva and literally heaps more have had tremendous careers while being almost totally left-footed because when you're good enough it isn't that easy to stop.

For his goal the space is created by Watkins making the run on the outside, for the El Ghazi goal the space for the cross is made via a combination of Cash overlapping and Traore feinting a back heel to him. It's the result of having a functioning attacking unit that stretches defenses and forces them into making split-second decisions that aren't as easy to stop as "just show him down the wing".

[cheltenham_villa]

11 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Exactly, not just that but Cash overlapping too. Think people are being too short-sighted in thinking the lack of a strong right foot suddenly makes him completely ineffective once teams "work it out" as if the point of attacking players like him (and the team itself) isn't to have the ability to get past basic defensive tactics like that. Better players than Traore like Robben, Di Maria, David Silva and literally heaps more have had tremendous careers while being almost totally left-footed because when you're good enough it isn't that easy to stop.

For his goal the space is created by Watkins making the run on the outside, for the El Ghazi goal the space for the cross is made via a combination of Cash overlapping and Traore feinting a back heel to him. It's the result of having a functioning attacking unit that stretches defenses and forces them into making split-second decisions that aren't as easy to stop as "just show him down the wing".

Great points made, people seem to be ignoring the fact that we are choosing to play a heavily left footed player on the right hand side. its intentional, we want Cash and Watkins to make those runs so Traore can come inside and create shooting opportunities. 

[Adam2003]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

He will be found out if he keeps cutting inside everytime.

Defenders will start forcing him outside and then he becomes a liability.

Nah not at all. It limits his options sure, but it’s like Robben - he only had one move but if you don’t know WHEN he will cut inside it still works. I’d love his right foot to be as good as his left but defenders already know what he’s going to do.

[Sam-AVFC]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

He will be found out if he keeps cutting inside everytime.

Defenders will start forcing him outside and then he becomes a liability.

Jack and to an extent Trezeguet are less predictable. They can both go outside and inside and still cause danger.

I'm sure every LB he has faced would have been well aware of his style before we played them. It's why clubs employ so many people. The real attacking threat from us will come if he develops a good relationship with Cash and creates the overlap down his side. If they do it well, it wont matter if other players expect it.

You could argue with Trezeguet he's easy to defend against because you know he'll never create an overlap and will be easily crowded out. I also don't remember him creating a huge amount of danger for us so far.

[Rightdm00]

A game of football is 90 minutes long.  So they can show him down the wing 9 times but Bertie's left foot is so elite he only needs the defense to slip up one or 2 times to produce something of real quality.

He actually did it 3 times versus the Baggies. The El Ghazi goal, his block shot right outside the 6 yard box, and then that filthy goal from just outside the D.  

Also, just to drive home the point others have mentioned it's very purposeful that Dean has placed Traore on the right. Him cutting in allowed Cash to reach the byline multiple times for cutbacks and Traore played the ball that freed cash for that beautiful cross on the Watkins offside goal . 

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, sne said:

That was my reaction with that goal, looked exactly like the type of finishes Henry used to do. He scored a bunch of goals like that. Lovely finish.

Not identical with him being right footed and all but a couple of the same type in here.

 

Imagine how good Henry could have been if he was not so 1 footed! 

[abdulaziz1]

I don’t see being one footed Would make him bad. It was his fitness and decision making what makes him down. Probably confidence too. From now on I think he’ll build up from there. He’s a very useful player to have but I think we need to be cautious against top teams as he play with fire usually so any successful tackle and we’re conceding a dangerous chance. 
It clearly showed us that we only needs Trez in the top games, where more workrate and defensive play needed. For games which we have the ball more, Traore or even El Ghazi are better choices. 

[Enda]

1 hour ago, sne said:

That was my reaction with that goal, looked exactly like the type of finishes Henry used to do. He scored a bunch of goals like that. Lovely finish.

Not identical with him being right footed and all but a couple of the same type in here.

Nice to see Steve Bruce getting skinned in that video. In my head he’s an era older than Henry.