Ollie Watkins

[QldVilla]

8 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Who said I was writing him off?

I really like him as a player, I think he’s been a great signing and I’m excited to see how he progresses. 
 

We’re purely talking about penalty taking here and his record is poor. You can justify it by saying “3-4 degrees” but he’s missed a lot. 

 

You can reduce this to childish insults like implying that I don’t think he should ever make mistakes if you like. All I’ve said is he’s not very good at penalties and somebody else should take them

Childish insults?? Your basing your opinion on an outcome, after 9 games for the club, someone well documented, who is still learning to be a striker,  not whether it can be changed or fixed. You stick your head in the ground and go, No! He can’t become a better penalty taker based on a small technical error that can be fixed in training.
 

It’s another thing if he was bottling it through lack of confidence, not a clean strike of the ball, poor technique etc, but it isn’t. Under your theory he won’t become a better footballer, didn’t realise we had a team of perfect players, who don’t make mistakes, but let’s focus on the one player who did...
 

You have your opinion that’s fine, but let’s not pretend it’s based on anything other than an outcome. Future  outcomes can be changed and it’s ignorant to think a small technical floor can’t be changed to improve his penalty taking, if not, why do they train 5 days a week??

[Follyfoot]

6 hours ago, lexicon said:

You'd probably have to look to Jack for that. Mings certainly has the bottle, but probably not the technique!

Mings, Lord no

[penguin]

7 hours ago, lexicon said:

The problem, as we've been discussing, is if there is anyone better - and I can't really see any outstanding candidates.

How could we know?

I imagine the majority of Premier League footballers could put the ball on a postage stamp from 12 yards 9 times out of 10 in training so it's going to be next to impossible to judge until they are in a pressure situation.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, QldVilla said:

Childish insults?? Your basing your opinion on an outcome, after 9 games for the club, someone well documented, who is still learning to be a striker,  not whether it can be changed or fixed. You stick your head in the ground and go, No! He can’t become a better penalty taker based on a small technical error that can be fixed in training.

Have I ever said that? I said he shouldn't be taking our penalties. I said he could improve but until he does we should have someone else on them

1 hour ago, QldVilla said:

 

It’s another thing if he was bottling it through lack of confidence, not a clean strike of the ball, poor technique etc, but it isn’t. Under your theory he won’t become a better footballer, didn’t realise we had a team of perfect players, who don’t make mistakes, but let’s focus on the one player who did...

I never said any of that either. I literally said I was excited to see how he progresses in the post you quoted.

1 hour ago, QldVilla said:

You have your opinion that’s fine, but let’s not pretend it’s based on anything other than an outcome. Future  outcomes can be changed and it’s ignorant to think a small technical floor can’t be changed to improve his penalty taking, if not, why do they train 5 days a week??

Didn't say any of this either. You seem to be having an argument with yourself

Edited December 4, 2020 by Stevo985

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, lexicon said:

The problem, as we've been discussing, is if there is anyone better - and I can't really see any outstanding candidates.

I'd wager a lot of our players would have a better than 2 in 6 record.

[KentVillan]

The obvious candidates for penalties are:

• Watkins - scored against Southampton, missed (crossbar!) against West Ham
• Wesley - missed penalty against Norwich last season... injured
• Grealish - missed penalty against Shef Utd last season
• El Ghazi - scored against Man City... doesn't start
• Barkley - injured, but has a 3/5 record historically
• Hourihane - doesn't start, but scored in our shootout against West Brom
• Douglas Luiz & Targett - never seen either of them take a pen, but both look like they'd be good

None of them really jump out, do they?

I would keep Watkins on pens tbh, unless someone else in the squad shows real ability and consistency.

[VillaChris]

5 hours ago, abdomlahor said:

Barry was the penalty king. I don't remember him missing one.

Barry tended to miss once a season. He missed at Newcastle in 05/06 when he skied it. Then Friedel saved v him at Blackburn the following year. Also missed one at Reading in 07/08. Can't remember him ever missing at VP.

In those days we got 7/8 penalties a season so missing the odd one was quickly forgotten. Different now when it tends to stick in the mind given how few we get.

[VillaChris]

4 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

The obvious candidates for penalties are:

• Watkins - scored against Southampton, missed (crossbar!) against West Ham
• Wesley - missed penalty against Norwich last season... injured
• Grealish - missed penalty against Shef Utd last season
• El Ghazi - scored against Man City... doesn't start
• Barkley - injured, but has a 3/5 record historically
• Hourihane - doesn't start, but scored in our shootout against West Brom
• Douglas Luiz & Targett - never seen either of them take a pen, but both look like they'd be good

None of them really jump out, do they?

I would keep Watkins on pens tbh, unless someone else in the squad shows real ability and consistency.

Jack neatly tucked away his penalty away to West Brom and at the time that was as high pressure situation as you could get.

I'd be amazed if he dosen't take next penalty we get if he's on the pitch.

Given how good he's become at most aspects of the game at top level in last 12 months I'd be amazed if he couldn't add competant penalty taker to his portfolio.

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

Jack neatly tucked away his penalty away to West Brom and at the time that was as high pressure situation as you could get.

I'd be amazed if he dosen't take next penalty we get if he's on the pitch.

Given how good he's become at most aspects of the game at top level in last 12 months I'd be amazed if he couldn't add competant penalty taker to his portfolio.

The thing with pens is they aren't a pure test of ability. They're mental as well. Milner, Denis Irwin, Barry, etc. just had something about them that made them great penalty takers. Hard to put a finger on it. Jedinak was another one, of course.

Greatest of all time - Glenn Whelan. Rescued this club. What a man.

[Rightdm00]

13 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

The thing with pens is they aren't a pure test of ability. They're mental as well. Milner, Denis Irwin, Barry, etc. just had something about them that made them great penalty takers. Hard to put a finger on it. Jedinak was another one, of course.

Greatest of all time - Glenn Whelan. Rescued this club. What a man.

It was so comical at the time. Couldn't believe my eyes when he put the ball on the spot. 

[QldVilla]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Have I ever said that? I said he shouldn't be taking our penalties. I said he could improve but until he does we should have someone else on them

I never said any of that either. I literally said I was excited to see how he progresses in the post you quoted.

Didn't say any of this either. You seem to be having an argument with yourself

Maybe you should reread what you said.
 

 

[Mjvilla]

Pretty bizarre argument in here.

It's simple for me. If someone misses 4 out of 6 penalties, they shouldn't be on them. He can practice them, of course. He can get better, of course.

But right now, as we speak he's missed 4 out of 6. 

Like @KentVillan said, it's a test of mental strength. That kind of record will certainly be on someone's mind. 

None of this makes me dislike Watkins or not rate him, completely opposite. He strikes me as someone who will go away and work bloody hard to make himself better at this. So, let him do that. 

[tom_avfc]

8 hours ago, KentVillan said:

The obvious candidates for penalties are:

• Watkins - scored against Southampton, missed (crossbar!) against West Ham
• Wesley - missed penalty against Norwich last season... injured
• Grealish - missed penalty against Shef Utd last season
• El Ghazi - scored against Man City... doesn't start
• Barkley - injured, but has a 3/5 record historically
• Hourihane - doesn't start, but scored in our shootout against West Brom
• Douglas Luiz & Targett - never seen either of them take a pen, but both look like they'd be good

None of them really jump out, do they?

I would keep Watkins on pens tbh, unless someone else in the squad shows real ability and consistency.

I’d agree with this. I’d also add that Hourihane has missed his last two non-shootout penalties.

I’d be fairly confident in Watkins burying the next penalty he gets. I don’t know if others on here have seen any of his Brentford penalties from between 1-3 years ago but I certainly haven’t.
 

I’m not going to write someone off as a poor penalty taker on the basis of a penalty that’s hit hard towards a top corner and hit the crossbar. If there was a leading candidate crying out to take the next penalty then fine but I’m not convinced by any of the alternatives.

[Stevo985]

8 hours ago, QldVilla said:

Maybe you should reread what you said.
 

 

I did. I said what I said. You seem to be arguing with something you've made up.

That's ok, we move on. 

Let's hope if Ollie stays on them he makes the tiny changes you've suggested.

 

Personally I hope we put somebody else on them who is better at penalties.

[DCJonah]

I think it's pretty reasonable to remove someone from penalty duty when they've missed 4 from 6. Thats a shocking record. 

You give the next person the chance now. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I still reckon Luiz should step up for next one. 

[Tomaszk]

6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I still reckon Luiz should step up for next one. 

I don't think he'd ever miss. It's not a difficult skill and the lad has ice in his veins.

[turvontour]

4 hours ago, tom_avfc said:

I’d agree with this. I’d also add that Hourihane has missed his last two non-shootout penalties.

I’d be fairly confident in Watkins burying the next penalty he gets. I don’t know if others on here have seen any of his Brentford penalties from between 1-3 years ago but I certainly haven’t.
 

I’m not going to write someone off as a poor penalty taker on the basis of a penalty that’s hit hard towards a top corner and hit the crossbar. If there was a leading candidate crying out to take the next penalty then fine but I’m not convinced by any of the alternatives.

Who were the Hourihane misses against?

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

15 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

Mings, Lord no

Probably TOO much bottle, I could legit picture him trying Lookman type attempts or sauntering onto te ball to pass it down the middle. lol

[Zatman]

13 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Barry tended to miss once a season. He missed at Newcastle in 05/06 when he skied it. Then Friedel saved v him at Blackburn the following year. Also missed one at Reading in 07/08. Can't remember him ever missing at VP.

In those days we got 7/8 penalties a season so missing the odd one was quickly forgotten. Different now when it tends to stick in the mind given how few we get.

Usually with the Barry penalties the keeper needed to make a really good save if it hit the target. Reading one pissed me off as i always remember I bet on him to score the first goal