Generic Virus Thread

[Jareth]

So Deloitte are running the Chessington Park drive through test centre - and very badly. I've no issue with private companies running a public service if they do it well, but Deloitte? How on god's earth did they get chosen to run something like this?

[Dom_Wren]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

The mayor of Vegas has literally offered to open the entire city and use it as a “control group” for whether lockdown works or not. 
 

Literally offering up her citizens to die. As an experiment. 
 

So yeah there’s a pretty good chance it’ll open

Chuffing Norah!!

 

[snowychap]

15 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

Why would they get an increase if their circumstances haven’t changed and they are in the same situation (ie not working as before)? 

Why would UC recipients get an increase?

There are a number of reasons (why costs would increase) for the average person: including fewer bogofs, essentials (such as bog roll) not being on offer, increased utility costs, having to shop at local shops rather than supermarkets.

Everyone's circumstances have changed. People whose options before the lockdown were limited are further limited by the lockdown (and the government's 'strong' advice).

Yet those people and their plight are ignored by the government. And not just by the government.

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by snowychap

[Lichfield Dean]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

And just a reminder that those people on ESA (employment and support allowance) have not seen and will not see (as per any government announcement) any increase in the money they receive.

People on ESA are people who have passed WCAs and are assessed as unfit for work or fit for 'work-related activity' (obviously vastly-reduced opportunity given the current situation).

Their conditions include cancer & respiratory diseases.

People with existing ailments, some of whom are being told to shield, are being ignored by the government whilst responses to others (whether or not they're even working) are being trumpeted.

Yep, my wife is one of these...

[Xann]

Quote

Revealed: Private firm running UK PPE stockpile was sold in middle of pandemic

Grauniad

We had this one?

They must want to give us better value for money.

 

 

[maqroll]

Staggering that this is happening everywhere right now. Especially in Indian cities which are so congested and old.

 

[Seat68]

6 hours ago, Dom_Wren said:

Chuffing Norah!!

 

But The Strip isnt part of her jurisdiction. Its Clark County "Vegas" is under, so her demented ramblings were a case of this is what I would do. The Nevada Governer, Steve Sisolak also outlined his fairly strict reopening plan, which not as derisive, was pretty vague.  

[markavfc40]

I wonder how many lives the failure to ramp up capacity to test, track and trace in February, or to lock down earlier to allow the capacity to be ramped up when cases were much lower, has cost?

Germany I suppose is a decent comparison of what might have been. Does anybody know if their death figures are just those in hospital or do theirs include care homes/in the community? If their figure for deaths of 5500 is for all deaths then that is around 15% of the deaths we have had, if we assume that including care homes and community our deaths are likely to be around twice the deaths in hospitals.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

2 hours ago, Seat68 said:

But The Strip isnt part of her jurisdiction. Its Clark County "Vegas" is under, so her demented ramblings were a case of this is what I would do. The Nevada Governer, Steve Sisolak also outlined his fairly strict reopening plan, which not as derisive, was pretty vague.  

You’re quite right. There is more to Las Vegas than the strip, though. So Stevo isn’t wrong there, she has offered up her jurisdiction as some sort of weird and dangerous experiment. I guess she’s hoping to put pressure on Clark County to open up the strip and get things fully going again. 

[hogso]

9 hours ago, Lichfield Dean said:

Yep, my wife is one of these...

New or existing claimant? I've heard 'New Style' ESA claims went live online over the weekend, and if there's a spike in that work, it may get sent to my office.

[wazzap24]

Blimey 

@bickster - backs up what your other half had heard anecdotally? 
 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nicotine-patches-to-be-tested-on-patients-after-study-suggests-smokers-less-likely-to-catch-covid-19-11977460

Quote

Nicotine patches are to be tested on coronavirus patients and healthcare workers treating infected people after initial studies suggested smokers were less likely to catch the disease.

Researchers in France say early data indicates those who smoke make up a disproportionately small number of people in hospital with COVID-19.

A study at Paris's Pitie-Salpetriere hospital suggests a substance in tobacco, thought to be nicotine, was preventing smokers contracting coronavirus.

 

Massively at odds with that other study from China that said smokers were up to 14 times more likely to contract it? 

[Jareth]

Interesting to see Wales and Scotland addressing the exit plan, but not England. I don't normally miss a trick when it comes to government bashing but the situations in the regions are all different, just looking at any figures it is obvious England has had by far the worst of it. From the Welsh FM - 

Some restrictions in Wales could be eased at the end of the current three-week lockdown period, the first minister has said.

Speaking on BBC Radio Wales, Mr Drakeford said Wales would come out of lockdown in three phases “like a traffic light in reverse”, seeing restrictions gradually lifted.

Asked when Wales would reach the first stage of lifting restrictions, Mr Drakeford said: “I hope we will be in a position to do that at the end of the current three-week lockdown period."

However he warned this would only happen if Wales had met the tests set out in the Welsh Government’s framework for exiting the lockdown, which will be published later on Friday.

“We will have to have had hospital admissions falling consistently for 14 days," he said.

“They have been falling over the last week so it’s not impossible that we will get to that point and in that case we can move into the red zone.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-wales-52395876

[Awol]

Noises that the Treasury may (finally) be extending business interruption loan guarantee from 80 to 100% next week.

Think this is still going through the commercial banks, so no doubt they’ll gouge those businesses on the interest rate despite having 0% risk.

Also suggests the lockdown will continue for a while. 

[Jareth]

Wonder what the antibody levels are in London..

More evidence is emerging that far more New Yorkers have had the coronavirus than the number confirmed by lab tests, officials said today.

A state survey of about 3,000 people found that nearly 14% had antibodies, suggesting they had been exposed to the virus, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said at his daily news briefing.

In New York City, the epicenter of the pandemic in the U.S., 21% of the people tested had antibodies.

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/04/23/breaking-news/antibody-survey-shows-wide-exposure-to-coronavirus-in-new-york-governor-says/

[sne]

This is the best take I have read on the Swedish model so far:

Quote

The contradicting messages are beginning to become painful

Do we keep the taverns open because we believe in the Swedish corona model, or to avoid giving them money? The political culture of honor around outdoor dining is becoming a concern for more than the restaurateurs.

 

Finally Friday, spring and salary! How wonderful to gather some single friends for a glass on the trunk after work, in all responsible simplicity - or would it be a crime against the state? 

It's not that easy to know, actually.

Podcaster Ola Söderholm recently coined the term "the whole of Sweden's manipulative boyfriend " about state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell . It was at the end of March, when the Public Health Authority's ambiguous injunction was something new to the public and people were confused.

It was totally okay to travel and walk around town. As long as you didn't. If you wanted to. It was important to listen to the advice, but at the same time okay if not everyone did. You had to go to yourself. The infection would be stopped, though not completely.

Barely a day passes without Prime Minister Stefan Löfven or someone in his cabinet criticizing people who do not take their responsibility for Sweden, but instead resort to outdoor seating. However, no prohibition is applied.

In Stockholm, the center of the infection, the double messages are even more clear. On April 10, responsible Mayor Daniel Helldén (MP) announced that all types of outdoor dining were allowed, in order to allow for cooler dining in the fresh air. Since then, other Stockholm politicians have almost competed in condemning the servings in question.

Everything culminated on Friday morning, when Minister of the Interior Mikael Damberg (S) and Stockholm Finance Minister Anna König Jerlmyr (M) appeared at a joint press conference on the serious situation in the capital.

Damberg figuratively punched the table and wanted to "correct the behavior that is not correct". König Jerlmyr also raised the tone. Admittedly, the inspections that the municipality has actually done have only noted violations "in a few isolated cases," König Jerlmyr said. But there have been many "reports" of inaccuracies.

People hear and see a lot now, which is also encouraged. Police Minister Damberg explicitly urged citizens to report misconduct to the authorities.

Even for those who basically appreciate the Swedish freedom-under-responsibility line, it is difficult to ignore that it is in the process of creating a "we and them" in society. Decadent egoists on one side - informers on the other.

In addition, there is something else that bubbles, a little under the surface here.

In neighboring countries where restaurants, shops and similar establishments have actually been prohibited from operating, governments have seen themselves compelled to compensate for their activities financially. Of course, it is very expensive.

Sweden also has crisis support for companies, but they are so far less extensive and more adapted for large manufacturing companies than for small movements in the service sector.

 

Finance Minister Magdalena Andersson herself has not made any secret that Sweden's "open" line has been included in the design. After all, we haven't shut down!

The restaurateurs who want to do their part in the community action against the corona virus and its effects have thus been given a delicate task from the political intervention management:

Keep up your business, save jobs and make sure not to burden the public. While from politics, we do our best to make everything impossible, through the guilt of the guests and the rules of physical distance that basically go against the whole idea of a restaurant.

Cheers!

https://www.expressen.se/kronikorer/viktor-barth-kron/de-dubbla-budskapen-borjar-bli-plagsamma/

[LondonLax]

33 minutes ago, sne said:

This is the best take I have read on the Swedish model so far:

https://www.expressen.se/kronikorer/viktor-barth-kron/de-dubbla-budskapen-borjar-bli-plagsamma/

This is going to be a problem everywhere. Even once a lockdown is relaxed plenty of people will be fearful of going out for a long time to come. The protesters in the US who want restrictions removed are hoping it will allow them to go back to their jobs but in many ways it will actually be worse for them, their businesses will see so few customers that they are not financially viable but governments are likely to wind down the levels of financial support they are currently offering. 

This is why I think the recent stock market rally is a false dawn. Relaxing restrictions doesn’t mean the economic problem is over (or the virus problem!), we still have a long long road ahead. 

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

Noises that the Treasury may (finally) be extending business interruption loan guarantee from 80 to 100% next week.

Think this is still going through the commercial banks, so no doubt they’ll gouge those businesses on the interest rate despite having 0% risk.

Also suggests the lockdown will continue for a while. 

I don't think this is mainly on the banks. The problem is that Sunak keeps following up statements of the 'of course I'll do anything it takes' variety, with others of the 'of course it'll all have to be paid back eventually' variety. If banks think they're going to be on the hook for non-performing loans in the future, then yes, they're going to charge interest rates and do time-consuming investigations of businesses credit-worthiness, because there isn't 0% risk.

Edited April 24, 2020 by HanoiVillan

[Lichfield Dean]

1 hour ago, hogso said:

New or existing claimant? I've heard 'New Style' ESA claims went live online over the weekend, and if there's a spike in that work, it may get sent to my office.

Ah, she's one of those that has been on benefits for years because she can't work but hasn't been moved to UC. No idea exactly the details to be honest, I find the whole thing stupidly confusing. And with coronavirus now hitting I imagine it's caused all sorts of pain for everybody involved in the system.

[OutByEaster?]

4 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

The protesters in the US who want restrictions removed are hoping it will allow them to go back to their jobs but in many ways it will actually be worse for them, their businesses will see so few customers that they are not financially viable but governments are likely to wind down the levels of financial support they are currently offering. 

This is the big worry for me at the moment. I work in the events business and there's a big concern about the gap between the end of furloughing and the time when events will start to happen again - if that gap lasts for any decent length of time I think we'll face a lot of redundancies.

 

[HanoiVillan]

6 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

This is going to be a problem everywhere. Even once a lockdown is relaxed plenty of people will be fearful of going out for a long time to come. The protesters in the US who want restrictions removed are hoping it will allow them to go back to their jobs but in many ways it will actually be worse for them, their businesses will see so few customers that they are not financially viable but governments are likely to wind down the levels of financial support they are currently offering. 

This is why I think the recent stock market rally is a false dawn. Relaxing restrictions doesn’t mean the economic problem is over (or the virus problem!), we still have a long long road ahead. 

Very much this. There are two interlocked crises - a public health one, and an economic one. Governments need to give confidence on both fronts to solve the latter, because people won't spend and businesses won't invest if they think they will get sick or that we will re-enter lockdown (so people won't go to restaurants or hotels anyway), and people will delay purchasing big-ticket items like cars and houses if they think they might lose a job or some hours in the near future.