Wesley Moraes

[villalad21]

3 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

This is what Smith needs to work with him on

A lot of it is natural and instinctual. Not everything can be coached

[sne]

1 minute ago, MotoMkali said:

Players generally stop adding new skills to their game at about 24 and then start adding new ones back once they hit 28 after they leave their athletic prime. Wesley has probably 4 or 5 more years where he can easily add or refine his skills because he hasn't had as long to refine them.

That's certainly a broad generalization. Not sure it's correct tbh.

Either way I'd say it's more down to drive and mentality so hopefully Wesley has this.

[PieFacE]

He definitely needs to work on busting a gut to get on the end of crosses. When he drops deep he does take too long to get into the box, it's odd, I'm not sure why this hasn't been addressed. 

He's had some very poor games for us but yesterday wasn't one of them. He wasn't amazing either, but he did a decent job. 

 

[Adam2003]

3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

A lot of it is natural and instinctual. Not everything can be coached

This is definitely true for some parts of being a striker, but a lot of the time Wesley gets himself into good positions (eg the one on a plate he put straight at Dubravka) and finishing those definitely can be coached - that’s just composure. Brendan Rogers was saying this weekend how much they’ve worked on Harvey Barnes getting into the right positions and now he does, and the next step is to work on his composure when finishing. Wesley needs to keep working on both but has ended up with the ball enough in the six yard box (that miss, the goal against Arsenal, etc etc) that I’m not worried about his instinct - if he didn’t have it PL defences would snuff him out without that ball getting to him. Give him time.

[vreitti]

54 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

His goals have all been natural finishes I just think he is still far behind others on his development curve. Give him 2 or 3 years and I think he will dominate the prem as he will be too big to handle and will have his finishing, passing and dribbling down pat. Right now he is basically a 16 year old as he is 8 years behind Davis who has been playing in a competitive setting since he was 8. They both could be very good it is just wesley is a diamond in the rough and anything he does in the prem shows his natural ability. 

We simply cannot afford to wait 2-3 years for him to "dominate".

[Adam2003]

1 minute ago, vreitti said:

We simply cannot afford to wait 2-3 years for him to "dominate".

Let’s try half a season though eh.

[PieFacE]

1 minute ago, vreitti said:

We simply cannot afford to wait 2-3 years for him to "dominate".

There's no denying we need another striker. I think absolutely everyone will agree with that point. 

[MotoMkali]

Just now, vreitti said:

We simply cannot afford to wait 2-3 years for him to "dominate".

Yeah but we don't need him to dominate he needs to hold the ball up (when played to his feet) and bring others in which he did excellently yesterday. He also contributes to most of our goals and whilst he did miss a bit of a sitter the chance wasn't as easy as it looked and it was great keeping from their goalie. 

[Ingram85]

I'm not concerned about Wesley himself as a footballer, he personally has the time to learn and adapt. It isnt his fault that we need a finished article at this moment, its ours.

Its Villa I'm concerned with. If we dont get another striker in to support him and who is at the level right now that we think Wesley can reach then I will most definitely be concerned. 

[HKP90]

37 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

None of that is abuse. Its criticism. 

You’re right, it’s criticism. Not in any way constructive, but it’s not based on personal characteristics.

Similarly the use of ‘snowflake’ to describe a person concerned about human rights is a lazy, loaded argument.

For me, his performance was reasonable, given that he was dropping deep to enable others to go forward, call it a false nine or whatever, but I think we need much more aggressive wide players who can finish like strikers to make this work going forward.

I don’t think DS knows exactly how to deploy Wes most effectively yet, but from a coaching perspective I think we’ll need to decide on a system soon and get it drilled.

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

He literally had two superb chances last night. One was a straight up tap in, the other one he just had to slide for a splendid pass. 

He didn't score on any of them. 

Was that 2nd chance not El Ghazi 

[vreitti]

24 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Yeah but we don't need him to dominate he needs to hold the ball up (when played to his feet) and bring others in which he did excellently yesterday. He also contributes to most of our goals and whilst he did miss a bit of a sitter the chance wasn't as easy as it looked and it was great keeping from their goalie. 

Yes he did (to some extent), against a very poor Newcastle side. If/when he starts doing it more regularly against the better sides, then I'm sure we'll all be willing to give him more time. Let's see how he does against Manure, Chelsea and Leicester. 

[MotoMkali]

1 minute ago, vreitti said:

Yes he did (to some extent), against a very poor Newcastle side. If/when he starts doing it more regularly against the better sides, then I'm sure we'll all be willing to give him more time. Let's see how he does against Manure, Chelsea and Leicester. 

Let's see whether our midfielders and wingers give him the support he needs to do that effectively. Without off the ball movement playing as a false 9 is pointless and will often be less effective than any other type of striker. 

[Wainy316]

As I said yesterday, at times it's like playing without a striker, but then Newcastle played without a front 3.

[villaglint]

I thought he played well last night. Hold up play was good and he also had a few nice link ups which is something we havent really seen before. 

For sure he should have scored. More concered with the games he doesnt even get a sniff of a chance. At least last night he showed the right movement. However misses like that in another game can be very costly. 

There is potential there but I make that about 3/4 good games out of 13. Weakest part of what is starting to be a team with good competition in most positions. 

Strengthening needed for sure. 

Whether that is in Jan is another question. It's by far the most expensive area to buy quality and I'm undecided whether we are better saving the pennies to do it properly in Summer or the needed for competition is real enough to do it now. I'm pretty confident we would stay up with Wesley, Kodjia, Davis but I'm not certain of it. 

[MotoMkali]

Just now, villaglint said:

I thought he played well last night. Hold up play was good and he also had a few nice link ups which is something we havent really seen before. 

For sure he should have scored. More concered with the games he doesnt even get a sniff of a chance. At least last night he showed the right movement. However misses like that in another game can be very costly. 

There is potential there but I make that about 3/4 good games out of 13. Weakest part of what is starting to be a team with good competition in most positions. 

Strengthening needed for sure. 

Whether that is in Jan is another question. It's by far the most expensive area to buy quality and I'm undecided whether we are better saving the pennies to do it properly in Summer or the needed for competition is real enough to do it now. I'm pretty confident we would stay up with Wesley, Kodjia, Davis but I'm not certain of it. 

I'd say 6 games Everton, Brighton, Norwich, arsenal, Newcastle and maybe Liverpool as his energy was good but didn't have much to work with. 

[A'Villan]

He did okay against Newcastle. Made some good decisions, that might appear obvious but in the heat of the moment, aren't necessarily.

I can't recall any costly mistakes over the 90 minutes. He went down too easily a few times, and can be too casual getting into position.

Unfortunately while both are quite easily addressed. Hold your ground in a contest and back yourself to win instead of appealing to the referee, and run harder.

Both are fundamental to being able to outmaneuver opponents, whether to nullify or create chances. Confidence in your ability, and covering ground better than the opposition.

To address that I'd get him running more, and go over video to show him how he could greater influence matches, though I'm sure Smith would have better ideas.

I think the jury is still very much out on Wesley, I can't align myself with a lot of the criticism he gets just yet.

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by A'Villan

[nick76]

I'm not a fan of strikers that dont score sufficient goals and I wasnt really a fan of Heskey when he was here but Wesley's effort last night I was really pleased with.  Yes, Newcastle were awful but him busting a gut constantly I was delighted with and the fact he lasted the whole game I could see the progression of him.  Earlier in the season we saw he was puffing towards the end of games so maybe we still have more to come. I hope it's in terms of goals but that maybe optimistic but there is a chance.  

As many have said we need another striker in January but many of us said that in August because we seem to be lacking in depth there and I think Wes will just keep getting better but I was proud of him yesterday and it would've topped off if he had score that goal.

[KenjiOgiwara]

12 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

He did okay against Newcastle. Made some good decisions, that might appear obvious but in the heat of the moment, aren't necessarily.

I can't recall any costly mistakes over the 90 minutes. He went down too easily a few times, and can be too casual getting into position.

Unfortunately while both are quite easily addressed. Hold your ground in a contest and back yourself to win instead of appealing to the referee, and run harder.

Both are fundamental to being able to outmaneuver opponents, whether to nullify or create chances. Confidence in your ability, and covering ground better than the opposition.

To address that I'd get him running more, and go over video to show him how he could greater influence matches, though I'm sure Smith would have better ideas.

I think the jury is still very much out on Wesley, I can't align myself with a lot of the criticism he gets just yet.

 

Good post. He made one pretty bad mistake (think it was first half, but no idea) when he dropped deep and misplaced a pass so Newcastle could counter directly behind our midfield. I remember it quite well, cause I thought IF this becomes a goal he would get slaughtered on here. 

He worked well last night compared to his usual stuff, but ultimately it's professional football, it's the premier league, AVFC and he's paid millions. One thing is having patience to watch him develop and give him time to adjust. Another thing entirely is to avoid giving him bad feedback cause some on here feels it will be detrimental to his confidence or whatever. It's almost Christmas now. He HAS to show better than what he's been doing so far. Hopefully is work rate last night is what we can expect from now on. 

Either way we absolutely 100% need a new striker in January. No brainer. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara

[VillaCas]

Sorry, I’m not hating on Wesley and I think talk of “abuse” is massively overblown and whilst he is trying hard and is improving he is far and away our weakest link at the moment

He doesn’t possess the raw materials to be a top class striker - does anyone really see him regularly leading the line this time next year!