Wesley Moraes

[gwi1890]

I think we are to used to a prolific poacher here at Villa, Tammy last season, Kodjia’s first season , Bent, Yorke to name a few, its clear this system is to try and get goals from everywhere full back ,midfielders wingers are all involved , last season we were over reliant on Tammy for goals they literally came from nowhere else , you only have to look at Bobby Firminio he scores goals but he is hardly prolific and yet he is regarded one of the best players in the leauge , is Wes in the same bracket no but we are hardly going to fork out £120m for a CF are we, its a very hard position to fill ,goal scorers are expensive one who can do both are priceless can anybody think off top of their heads for a good CF who is available and within budget?  

[Laughable Chimp]

22 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

I think we are to used to a prolific poacher here at Villa, Tammy last season, Kodjia’s first season , Bent, Yorke to name a few, its clear this system is to try and get goals from everywhere full back ,midfielders wingers are all involved , last season we were over reliant on Tammy for goals they literally came from nowhere else , you only have to look at Bobby Firminio he scores goals but he is hardly prolific and yet he is regarded one of the best players in the leauge , is Wes in the same bracket no but we are hardly going to fork out £120m for a CF are we, its a very hard position to fill ,goal scorers are expensive one who can do both are priceless can anybody think off top of their heads for a good CF who is available and within budget?  

I don't think anyone would mind Wesley not being super prolific if he actually contributed a lot in other aspects of the game more(he doesn't, generally). And Firmino is allowed to not be super prolific because he has the likes of Salah and Mane to do that for him. Something tells me El Ghazi and Trezeguet won't have anywhere near the goal returns of Salah and Mane though.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[Keyblade]

21 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

I think we are to used to a prolific poacher here at Villa, Tammy last season, Kodjia’s first season , Bent, Yorke to name a few, its clear this system is to try and get goals from everywhere full back ,midfielders wingers are all involved , last season we were over reliant on Tammy for goals they literally came from nowhere else , you only have to look at Bobby Firminio he scores goals but he is hardly prolific and yet he is regarded one of the best players in the leauge , is Wes in the same bracket no but we are hardly going to fork out £120m for a CF are we, its a very hard position to fill ,goal scorers are expensive one who can do both are priceless can anybody think off top of their heads for a good CF who is available and within budget?  

If Wes was playing like this and we weren't scoring goals, you could make a case for him being surplus to requirements. But the fact that we're the 7th highest scorers in the league shows that he is facilitating and making space for his teammates, mainly the midfielders, to score goals.

[gwi1890]

Just now, Laughable Chimp said:

I don't think anyone would mind Wesley not being super prolific if he actually contributed a lot in other aspects of the game more(he doesn't, generally). And Firmino is allowed to not be super prolific because he has the likes of Salah and Mane to do that for him. Something tells me El Ghazi and Trezeguet won't have anywhere near thr goal returns for Salah and Mane.

Who in the bottom half of the table is ever going to get near their goal returns?  If El Ghazi, Trezuget and Wesley can mange 20 goals between them ita decent for a team of our stature like I said erarlier Kodjia is the only other option but playing him would affect the shape of the team

[KenjiOgiwara]

33 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

I think we are to used to a prolific poacher here at Villa, Tammy last season, Kodjia’s first season , Bent, Yorke to name a few, its clear this system is to try and get goals from everywhere full back ,midfielders wingers are all involved , last season we were over reliant on Tammy for goals they literally came from nowhere else , you only have to look at Bobby Firminio he scores goals but he is hardly prolific and yet he is regarded one of the best players in the leauge , is Wes in the same bracket no but we are hardly going to fork out £120m for a CF are we, its a very hard position to fill ,goal scorers are expensive one who can do both are priceless can anybody think off top of their heads for a good CF who is available and within budget?  

Pretty obvious he's been a flop. Deano would probably admit that himself in private. Doesn't mean he can't improve, but so far... flop. 

Considering the eye Deano has for a player I think it's safe to say he expected more from a £ 22 million striker. I am 100% certain he had other names on the pad and I am intrigued to figure out who they were, or hopefully ARE. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Pretty obvious he's been a flop. Deano would probably admit that himself in private. Doesn't mean he can't improve, but so far... flop. 

Considering the eye Deano has for a player I think it's safe to say he expected more from a £ 22 million striker. I am 100% certain he had other names on the pad and I am intrigued to figure out who they were, or hopefully ARE. 

Doubt it.

Also it's impossible to determine if someone is a flop after just a third into the season. It's silly to try to claim definitively either way.

[Vive_La_Villa]

A flop after 13 games. Tough crowd.

 I think we all expected more though. I think flops a bit harsh but in terms of what was spent and the expectations of him I can understand fan disappointment.  I’m ok with him as long the team are scoring goals. Plus what’s the alternative anyway?

Edited November 26, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[sharkyvilla]

5 hours ago, Keyblade said:

I actually thought this was his best game post-Everton. He was everywhere, doing everything (other than score unfortuantely!). He was keeping the game ticking from the front and was opening up tons of space for Jack, El Ghazi and McGinn all game. He was the reason why we looked so dangerous every time we got the ball in the second half. When Jack was tearing through their backline time and again, who was dragging defenders with his runs and creating those gaps for him to run into? If he scored that sitter we'd be talking about a great all-round performance imo. He completely showed up Joelinton and Haller's performance from Saturday, and they cost twice what we paid for him (though to be fair to Joelinton, I doubt even prime Benteke could have done anything in that system).

Totally agree.  He was so more effective in a game where due to the nature of Bruceball we dominated play and could get runners beyond him.  I also saw it as a positive that he was in the right place at the right time for the sitter he missed as one of my criticisms of him has been that he sometimes links up but then doesnt bust his gut to get into the box to make the most of his earlier work.  It's going to take a while but I think he will get there eventually.

[Keyblade]

6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

A flop after 13 games. Tough crowd.

 I think we all expected more though. I think flops a bit harsh but in terms of what was spent and the expectations of him I can understand fan disappointment.  I’m ok with him as long the team are scoring goals. Plus what’s the alternative anyway?

Same dude who was talking about selling Jack 3 games into the season lol

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

Same dude who was talking about selling Jack 3 games into the season lol

No comment

[MotoMkali]

6 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Yeah, at least whoscored lists no strengths or weaknesses.  Not sure if its a case of them not having enough data on the player or they legitimately have no idea what is this guy's strengths or weaknesses. I would've assumed the former but they have enough data to characterize his style of play.

Hardly they have no clue with any of our players except hourihane. 

[Kiwivillan]

13 hours ago, VillaCas said:

No not his fault, but if we had a better CF I know we’d be in the top half of the league - is the fact we are =7th in goals scored because of Wesley or despite him?

He is definitely trying but it’s clear that he is not yet good enough and likely won’t improve quickly enough and so needs replacing 

We'd be 5th if we hadn't lost late to Arsenal and Liverpool. We concede too many shots and goals and I'd say Mings is the biggest culprit for the latter

[TRO]

On 25/11/2019 at 21:58, villa4europe said:

If you criticise him tonight then I don't think you understand what he's doing for us, dominated their line giving others acres to play in 

Shame he didn't score to round off a good game 

He took out their centre backs....if he wasn't there, they would have come further forward to support their midfield and we would have been pressed.

He has a way to go, but his presence is essential.

I think he will end up a good player.

If we all cast our minds back to Jacks unfortunate Injury to his kidney.....After his recovery ,He went on a rehabilitation programme with Ollie Stevenson and worked on his strength and came back a different Player....some had reservations of him staying on his feet, now its an art form.

Wes will be ok in the longer term IMO.....but not yet, granted.

Edited November 26, 2019 by TRO

[zab6359]

He won me over a little with Mondays performance (a little) still not going to jump on the Wesley sausagefest that a few seem to be on though. And still slightly disappointed in him but hopeful as it's far to early to pass judgment.

However definitely not false 9 that some have been spouting, right now I can only really see him in a target man role which he can do really well at times but when he does do it he's got no one close to pass to so generally wastes it (not his fault). 

[Johnnyp]

5 hours ago, gwi1890 said:

I think we are to used to a prolific poacher here at Villa, Tammy last season, Kodjia’s first season , Bent, Yorke to name a few, its clear this system is to try and get goals from everywhere full back ,midfielders wingers are all involved , last season we were over reliant on Tammy for goals they literally came from nowhere else , you only have to look at Bobby Firminio he scores goals but he is hardly prolific and yet he is regarded one of the best players in the leauge , is Wes in the same bracket no but we are hardly going to fork out £120m for a CF are we, its a very hard position to fill ,goal scorers are expensive one who can do both are priceless can anybody think off top of their heads for a good CF who is available and within budget?  

Dress it up whatever way you want. Strikers score goals.

[zab6359]

Interesting stat that for all his hold up play he hasn't put through a single ball yet this season or put in any crosses, all short or long passes.

Suppose he needs someone around to put through balls too.

Edited November 27, 2019 by zab6359

[KentVillan]

7 hours ago, zab6359 said:

He won me over a little with Mondays performance (a little) still not going to jump on the Wesley sausagefest that a few seem to be on though. And still slightly disappointed in him but hopeful as it's far to early to pass judgment.

However definitely not false 9 that some have been spouting, right now I can only really see him in a target man role which he can do really well at times but when he does do it he's got no one close to pass to so generally wastes it (not his fault). 

Hey, we're not saying he's good at it. We're just saying positionally his instinct is to come much, much deeper than a typical centre-forward or target man. I'm surprised this is so controversial - he's often linking up the play around the halfway line, with both wingers ahead of him.

Here's one example from the Newcastle game (7:33 into the highlights)

There were a couple of much better examples that haven't made the highlights, but have a look at some of his Brugge vids on YouTube.

A typical centre forward spends most of his time hovering around the opposition offside line. Okay, they'll drop in occasionally and work the channels, but Wesley is doing it (at a guess) on roughly half of our attacking plays.

I'm not saying this is the right thing for him to do, or that it excuses his performances. But it's a fact that he plays very deep, and anyone denying that just isn't watching him play.

Edited November 27, 2019 by KentVillan

[VillaCas]

Interesting debate but I feel some people’s desire for Wesley to succeed is overpowering the evidence in front of their eyes

On the plus side, Wesley has a decent work ethic, he can control the ball and can bring other people into play. He’s a big unit and so when he wants to he can lay on CHs and make their job very difficult, 

BUT for me that’s not enough.....So far I’ve not seen him, beat a player, shoot from outside the box, direct a header at goal, make a chance for himself (or anyone else to be honest), show a burst of speed or show any real predatory instinct

Smith will continue to play him because a) the alternatives are no better and b) he cost £22m and we need to protect our investment 

I’m sure Wesley can and will get better but many of his faults cannot be coached, they’re innate, you’ve either got em or you haven’t 

He’s clearly our weakest link. As long as we can maintain a position above the relegation places criticisms can be deflected but I’m certain that Smith urgently is looking at alternatives and equally certain that if we are still an Premier League side next season Wesley will not be first choice CF

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

Interesting debate but I feel some people’s desire for Wesley to succeed is overpowering the evidence in front of their eyes

On the plus side, Wesley has a decent work ethic, he can control the ball and can bring other people into play. He’s a big unit and so when he wants to he can lay on CHs and make their job very difficult, 

BUT for me that’s not enough.....So far I’ve not seen him, beat a player, shoot from outside the box, direct a header at goal, make a chance for himself (or anyone else to be honest), show a burst of speed or show any real predatory instinct

Smith will continue to play him because a) the alternatives are no better and b) he cost £22m and we need to protect our investment 

I’m sure Wesley can and will get better but many of his faults cannot be coached, they’re innate, you’ve either got em or you haven’t 

He’s clearly our weakest link. As long as we can maintain a position above the relegation places criticisms can be deflected but I’m certain that Smith urgently is looking at alternatives and equally certain that if we are still an Premier League side next season Wesley will not be first choice CF

I think your observations are reasonable and fair.

but equally some strikers, do little else. I.e Darren Bent,little contribution, Gabby too was ineffective towards the end of his career, if he wasn't scoring.

However, I too agree, a striker has to return a reasonable amount....no matter how good his hold up play is.

It very hard to get a striker thats complete.

[avfc1982am]

21 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

Players generally stop adding new skills to their game at about 24 and then start adding new ones back once they hit 28 after they leave their athletic prime. 

What a load of crap