Wesley Moraes

[TRO]

26 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Hey, we're not saying he's good at it. We're just saying positionally his instinct is to come much, much deeper than a typical centre-forward or target man. I'm surprised this is so controversial - he's often linking up the play around the halfway line, with both wingers ahead of him.

Here's one example from the Newcastle game (7:33 into the highlights)

There were a couple of much better examples that haven't made the highlights, but have a look at some of his Brugge vids on YouTube.

A typical centre forward spends most of his time hovering around the opposition offside line. Okay, they'll drop in occasionally and work the channels, but Wesley is doing it (at a guess) on roughly half of our attacking plays.

I'm not saying this is the right thing for him to do, or that it excuses his performances. But it's a fact that he plays very deep, and anyone denying that just isn't watching him play.

Except when he hit the keeper, with conors cross.....he was arguably too far forward and too much a trad No 9......too close to the keeper.

I think there is a danger, we can over analyse it.

[Dave-R]

05:16 the lad basically explains it about Wesley and it's how I feel, that he's to selfless and passes it off to much, needs to be more aggressive and on the go.

 

[KentVillan]

30 minutes ago, TRO said:

Except when he hit the keeper, with conors cross.....he was arguably too far forward and too much a trad No 9......too close to the keeper.

I think there is a danger, we can over analyse it.

I said he does this on "roughly half of our attacking plays". If he did it all the time, he would be a midfielder.

There is a danger of over analysing. There is also a danger of ignoring what all the scouting reports from his Brugge days said, and ignoring the evidence of him playing every week for Villa. He drops much deeper than a typical striker. This isn't controversial. How is this a debate? It's an objective fact.

If people think he drops deep too often and is a technically crap player - fine, that's a valid opinion. I don't necessarily disagree. But anyone insisting that he is a "traditional centre forward" just isn't paying attention.

Edited November 27, 2019 by KentVillan

[rodders0223]

9 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I said he does this on "roughly half of our attacking plays". If he did it all the time, he would be a midfielder.

There is a danger of over analysing. There is also a danger of ignoring what all the scouting reports from his Brugge days said, and ignoring the evidence of him playing every week for Villa. He drops much deeper than a typical striker. This isn't controversial. How is this a debate? It's an objective fact.

If people think he drops deep too often and is a technically crap player - fine, that's a valid opinion. I don't necessarily disagree. But anyone insisting that he is a "traditional centre forward" just isn't paying attention.

I don't think he drops too deep, more than an old school poacher like Defoe then sure...but he is doing a huge lot more than any other modern No.9? I don't think he is.

Kane (for example...and elite level, yes) drops in all the time and links play, but he has the ruthless desire to then get in the box aswell.

Wes, links the play and lays the ball off, but either doesn't have the instinct...or I suspect the sharpness to then get in there. He's very lumbering and slow off the mark.

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I think your observations are reasonable and fair.

but equally some strikers, do little else. I.e Darren Bent,little contribution, Gabby too was ineffective towards the end of his career, if he wasn't scoring.

However, I too agree, a striker has to return a reasonable amount....no matter how good his hold up play is.

It very hard to get a striker thats complete.

4 goals in 14 is a reasonable amount. No one in the bottom half the league will score more than 15 goals. Let's face it wesley is no callum Wilson or josh King. Wes will finish on around 12 with 4 or 5 assists. That is pretty good for where we will finish in the table. 

[birdman]

Its clear from the extended highlights (thanks for that by the way!) that Wes needs to work on his movement...technically and in terms of actual effort.

30 secs - why is he attacking the same space as El Ghazi? Wes should have darted either left or dropped right towards far post as either move could have drawn a Newc player away. 

7:32 - One two with Jack...nice but why isn't he immediately busting a gut to get to the box? Its as if hes admiring the move for a split second and loses valuable time. As it turns out he ends up with decent space on edge of box anyway but is let down by poor decision from McGinn.

8 min - the sitter - on another day he scores that. Should have done better though

Lots of good link up play too its just that he needs to be playing a bit higher and perhaps being more positive with the ball at his feet. I want to see what he can do driving at goal and testing the keeper!

[vreitti]

17 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

4 goals in 14 is a reasonable amount. No one in the bottom half the league will score more than 15 goals. Let's face it wesley is no callum Wilson or josh King. Wes will finish on around 12 with 4 or 5 assists. That is pretty good for where we will finish in the table. 

That would be an acceptable output for his first season here. Then again it's a little too soon to be claiming it will definitely happen. I see similarities in playing style with Kane, but as it stands Wesley does not have the required movement or vision to emulate the role of a modern no.9. Thus far, all I've seen from him is desire and hunger, but very little aptitude.  

 

[VillanousOne]

I’ve defended Wes and his progress so far but one thing that did alarm me a little vs the geordies was Grealish and McGinn would not even look for him when playing that final through ball forward. Which was annoying as John kept screwing up regardless.

[Five Ken McNaughts]

19 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

I’ve defended Wes and his progress so far but one thing that did alarm me a little vs the geordies was Grealish and McGinn would not even look for him when playing that final through ball forward. Which was annoying as John kept screwing up regardless.

Noticed the same. Plenty of 3-on-2 breaks in the last ten minutes – none of which ever looked like they would end with Wesley being played in and tucking it away. Hard to say exactly how much was down to Wes, and how much was a lack of belief in him from his team-mates. I would be drilling those 3-on-2's in training all week. Until Keinan's injury, Wes wasn't generally on the pitch in those final moments when the game gets stretched. Do we actually have a specific striker / attacking coach?

[ciggiesnbeer]

I thought he played well, he needs to drop being stroppy though. Frankly all our team has gotten a bit too gobby for my liking. 

Agree with the above, our midfield could do with actually looking for Wesley more. Only Jota seems to be on his wavelength. 

 

[Five Ken McNaughts]

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Edited November 27, 2019 by Five Ken McNaughts
Double post

[Keyblade]

3 minutes ago, Five Ken McNaughts said:

Noticed the same. Plenty of 3-on-2 breaks in the last ten minutes – none of which ever looked like they would end with Wesley being played in and tucking it away. Hard to say exactly how much was down to Wes, and how much was a lack of belief in him from his team-mates. I would be drilling those 3-on-2's in training all week. Until Keinan's injury, Wes wasn't generally on the pitch in those final moments when the game gets stretched. Do we actually have a specific striker / attacking coach?

Probably because he's the one starting the breaks, like the one Jack set up for McGinn near the end of the game. I agree he should probably gamble more and bust a lung to get into the box. Maybe McGinn won't shoot and will cross it instead (doubt it though  ) .

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, VillanousOne said:

I’ve defended Wes and his progress so far but one thing that did alarm me a little vs the geordies was Grealish and McGinn would not even look for him when playing that final through ball forward. Which was annoying as John kept screwing up regardless.

Yeah but they also weren't looking for el ghazi. They kept trying to play each other in. 

[Keyblade]

6 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Yeah but they also weren't looking for el ghazi. They kept trying to play each other in. 

I thought Jack could have played a disguised pass for El Ghazi who was bursting through on goal instead of to McGinn who was at a wider angle.

[TRO]

10 hours ago, KentVillan said:

I said he does this on "roughly half of our attacking plays". If he did it all the time, he would be a midfielder.

There is a danger of over analysing. There is also a danger of ignoring what all the scouting reports from his Brugge days said, and ignoring the evidence of him playing every week for Villa. He drops much deeper than a typical striker. This isn't controversial. How is this a debate? It's an objective fact.

If people think he drops deep too often and is a technically crap player - fine, that's a valid opinion. I don't necessarily disagree. But anyone insisting that he is a "traditional centre forward" just isn't paying attention.

I was merely pointing out he does take up positions of a trad No 9 at times ( He has scored from those positions) and he comes deep at times...He varies it.....He also pre occupies centre backs too, which is a valuable asset to the team.

Dean Smith is known to have watched him a fair bit in order to be interested......I don't know what the Brugge scouting reports said, but Dean must have been happy with what he saw....To date he hasn't been a prolific goalscorer.

In addition.......I would think The Brazil National team, is unlikely to be interested in a crap player....so they must see something.

Its not happening for him  in terms of goals or us at present.....but I think it will in time.

 

[Tomaszk]

3 hours ago, Five Ken McNaughts said:

Noticed the same. Plenty of 3-on-2 breaks in the last ten minutes – none of which ever looked like they would end with Wesley being played in and tucking it away. Hard to say exactly how much was down to Wes, and how much was a lack of belief in him from his team-mates. I would be drilling those 3-on-2's in training all week. Until Keinan's injury, Wes wasn't generally on the pitch in those final moments when the game gets stretched. Do we actually have a specific striker / attacking coach?

Yep, very noticeable.

Happened with Taylor as well, the players all started trying to avoid him because it meant they'd be trying to win the ball back 5 seconds later.

Wes playing very poorly is causing this.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Tomaszk

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

Yep, very noticeable.

Happened with Taylor as well, the players all started trying to avoid him because it meant they'd be trying to win the ball back 5 seconds later.

Wes playing very poorly is causing this.

Hardly wes has only had one time where the ball has been played in behind for him and he scored. Grealish and McGinn waited too long in these situations. El ghazi was in free space with no defender on him and if grealish or McGinn played him he would have had a one on one 3 or 4 times. 

[Kiwivillan]

5 hours ago, Keyblade said:

I thought Jack could have played a disguised pass for El Ghazi who was bursting through on goal instead of to McGinn who was at a wider angle.

There was about 3 times El Ghazi was a great option (including the offside) where the pass should've gone to him or gone sooner. I think he makes intelligent runs which is why I rate him higher than Trez

Edited November 28, 2019 by Kiwivillan

[KenjiOgiwara]

22 hours ago, birdman said:

Its clear from the extended highlights (thanks for that by the way!) that Wes needs to work on his movement

Exactly what I was thinking watching it. 

Anyway I hope get bags a few goals soon. He needs it. 

[Guest av1]

Playing very well today I must say.