Wesley Moraes

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 hour ago, useless said:

calling someone 'absolute shite' or 'f***ing' this and that sounds pretty abusive to me.

Then I dare say you are wrong. Comparing professional footballers not delivering and fans verdict to the average accountant is just ridiculous. Whether it's acting, singing or sports, entertainment artists are paid differently exactly cause they make a very good living on performing where others can't. Saying a shit performance is shit does not constitute abuse in any way or form. It's not cruel. It's not malicious. It's just a reflection of a performance. Not to mention it's a messageboard. Obviously nobody would have a sit down with him and talk about his performances and say he's absolutely shit. You would be more constructive, but that's a fan's benefit on football forums. You can't expect 200 adjectives to describe every little bad thing and good thing a player does. If the performance is poor, it will get called out. And Wesley has been poor for most of the season. 

By your reasoning any slightly harsh negative views of any player performance will fall under the term abuse. If we are to continue this path words actually lose all meaning. 

Anyway that's my take on it. I hope he improves. At least he improved in one area last night, i.e. work rate. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara

[useless]

I'm sure the people who used those phrases didn't mean them as abuse as such, but the actual definition of 'absusive' is 'the use of rude and offensive words'.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

On the Tammy comparisons.

I would love if someone could go into the Tammy thread and pick out how many games he had where he was actually shite, and missed sitters, accompanied by all the comments stating why "this is why he will never make it at top level'.

 

[MotoMkali]

33 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Good post. He made one pretty bad mistake (think it was first half, but no idea) when he dropped deep and misplaced a pass so Newcastle could counter directly behind our midfield. I remember it quite well, cause I thought IF this becomes a goal he would get slaughtered on here. 

He worked well last night compared to his usual stuff, but ultimately it's professional football, it's the premier league, AVFC and he's paid millions. One thing is having patience to watch him develop and give him time to adjust. Another thing entirely is to avoid giving him bad feedback cause some on here feels it will be detrimental to his confidence or whatever. It's almost Christmas now. He HAS to show better than what he's been doing so far. Hopefully is work rate last night is what we can expect from now on. 

Either way we absolutely 100% need a new striker in January. No brainer. 

It wasn't a misplaced pass hourihane miscontrolled (?) it. The pass was a bit over hit but he found his man.

We need a new striker to offer something different but not to replace wesley. He has been continually getting better with this being his best game since Norwich. He missed a bit of a sitter but it was good keeping and 9/10 that exact shot goes in.

The criticism on here is never justified it is just he Is shit. Never he made a bad mistake this is what happened and what he should have done. So the rest of the fans who have watched the game and seen all the good things he did get really annoyed because you are hounding him without justification. He was good today and we shouldn't be expecting wesley to score 20 goals the only players who do that are Kane, aguero, Salah, mane, vardy and auba. Callum Wilson scored 14 goals last year and was the best scorer outside the top 6 so don't have a go at wesley when he is currently on track for 12 goals. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

5 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

It wasn't a misplaced pass hourihane miscontrolled (?) it. The pass was a bit over hit but he found his man.

Yeah I think you're right, but it was definitely overhit and a poor pass to a player recieving pressure, so that's an obvious error in my book. Can't really send awful passes around then argue the recipient should do better. Team game after all. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

12 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

On the Tammy comparisons.

I would love if someone could go into the Tammy thread and pick out how many games he had where he was actually shite, and missed sitters, accompanied by all the comments stating why "this is why he will never make it at top level'.

 

To be fair, Tammy missed way more chances for us than I've seen him do at Chelsea this year. He's been absolutely clinical, and I never saw this run of form coming from him. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

To be fair, Tammy missed way more chances for us than I've seen him do at Chelsea this year. He's been absolutely clinical, and I never saw this run of form coming from him. 

You've proven my point.

 

[gwi1890]

We’d be disjointed with Kodjia playing there though , if you look at the amount or players that bomb forward wes droping deep and holding up is essential is he doing a good enough job at it no but Kodjia would offer none of this

Edited November 26, 2019 by gwi1890

[supermon]

These are his stats before yesterday's game..."player has no significant strength"  

[sne]

16 minutes ago, supermon said:

These are his stats before yesterday's game..."player has no significant strength"  

I'd say that's pretty accurate in the context of the Premier League.

Does say he has no significant weaknesses either so glass half full?

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Yeah I think you're right, but it was definitely overhit and a poor pass to a player recieving pressure, so that's an obvious error in my book. Can't really send awful passes around then argue the recipient should do better. Team game after all. 

Hourihane should have done better with the pass. It was over hit but wasn't that badly. That was his only real error and again everyone makes errors Luiz lost the ball twice in dangerous positions, konsa's slice mings large touches etc. Should be piling on wes for a mistake which resulted in nothing and was 6 of one half a dozen of the other. 

[Laughable Chimp]

8 minutes ago, sne said:

I'd say that's pretty accurate in the context of the Premier League.

Does say he has no significant weaknesses either so glass half full?

Yeah, at least whoscored lists no strengths or weaknesses.  Not sure if its a case of them not having enough data on the player or they legitimately have no idea what is this guy's strengths or weaknesses. I would've assumed the former but they have enough data to characterize his style of play.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[villalad21]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

and missed sitters

At least he got into positions to be able to miss them!

Wesley most of the time doesn't make the runs to get into scoring positions at all

[Laughable Chimp]

Want to add that Wesley is actually 2 goals under his expected goals total. Makes sense considering his miss today and his penalty miss at Norwich, plus he's not the type to score difficult chances.

[birdman]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

To be fair, Tammy missed way more chances for us than I've seen him do at Chelsea this year. He's been absolutely clinical, and I never saw this run of form coming from him. 

Indeed. Tammy has way more chances created for him (both at Villa and Chelsea) and is also very good at creating his own chances hence he will always be prolific in the box as long as he gets the service. A very good combination.

Wesley is nothing like that because he plays too deep and when he is in the box is solely relying on service from others (so far at least) which as far as I can tell has been scrappy (anyone else think we put too many useless "floaty" balls in the box?)

He does need to improve and also try and create his own luck by generally being more positive on the ball and holding off players while running TOWARDS goal rather than always trying to bring others in to play with back to goal. Obviously we don't know what instructions hes had from Dean Smith but adjustments needed in both tactics his general play. 

[Keyblade]

I actually thought this was his best game post-Everton. He was everywhere, doing everything (other than score unfortuantely!). He was keeping the game ticking from the front and was opening up tons of space for Jack, El Ghazi and McGinn all game. He was the reason why we looked so dangerous every time we got the ball in the second half. When Jack was tearing through their backline time and again, who was dragging defenders with his runs and creating those gaps for him to run into? If he scored that sitter we'd be talking about a great all-round performance imo. He completely showed up Joelinton and Haller's performance from Saturday, and they cost twice what we paid for him (though to be fair to Joelinton, I doubt even prime Benteke could have done anything in that system).

[Skruff]

6 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I actually thought this was his best game post-Everton. He was everywhere, doing everything (other than score unfortuantely!). He was keeping the game ticking from the front and was opening up tons of space for Jack, El Ghazi and McGinn all game. He was the reason why we looked so dangerous every time we got the ball in the second half. When Jack was tearing through their backline time and again, who was dragging defenders with his runs and creating those gaps for him to run into? If he scored that sitter we'd be talking about a great all-round performance imo. He completely showed up Joelinton and Haller's performance from Saturday, and they cost twice what we paid for him (though to be fair to Joelinton, I doubt even prime Benteke could have done anything in that system).

Exactly. He had a good game. Plenty of times he pulled two defenders out, managed to hold up the ball and lay it of to our midfield while  El Ghazi  made runs into the space that opened up centrally. He did a good job at winning and holding up the ball last night, with  two defenders up against him most of the time.  At times he brushed them of at ease. 

There's definitely improvements happening, he's doing way more in terms of pressing, fights more for the ball and whines a lot less. 

 

[carewjust4u]

44 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

At least he got into positions to be able to miss them!

Wesley most of the time doesn't make the runs to get into scoring positions at all

Sorry mate, that isn't true at all...he always attacks the front post when the ball is taken to the byline. 

[sne]

Looking at their stats for yesterday at whoscored Wesley vs Joelinton

They rate Joelinton's performance slightly higher. 7.1 - 7.4 (somehow it's gone up since earlier today when they had 6.9-7.2  

Anyway:

• Touches 34 - 35
• pass% 83 - 61
• Key passes 2 - 2
• aerials won 7 out of 10  - 7 out of 9 (They both had their numbers against their defenders who all did a terrible job)
• dribbles 0 - 2
• tackles 1 - 2
• shots 1 - 3

Stats only tells you that much thou and when I watched the game I thought Wesley had a much better game than Joelinton, with the caveat that Joelinton had a hopeless situation up front with Newcastle.

[AVTuco]

4 hours ago, Ingram85 said:

It doesnt to me. 

Not in this context.