Popular Post villabromsgrove Posted July 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 24, 2018 We were a club in turmoil until last week in my opinion. We are no longer a club in turmoil due to an incredible slice of good luck. Managerial choice needs to be based on the future of the club, rather than looking over our shoulders at the way we've had to grind through the last few seasons. We have an average Championship squad, with a few above average players thrown into the mix. We can choose to continue to grind on safely, or we can choose to change to an ambitious approach to the next couple of seasons. Let's consider "grinding on safely". It would be uninspiring but just might get us to the edge of the play offs, and then who knows .... but what if we unexpectedly got promoted? Our squad and our style of play would be totally unsuited to a Premier League environment and a pre season with new players coming in would have very little chance of producing regular wins in the PL. The "ambitious approach" may carry more initial risk, but it would at the same time start to prepare us for potential Premier League football. It would also make Villa a more attractive proposition for aspiring European talent who were looking for a possible route into the PL. I don't believe that Sawiris and Edens have come into Villa to continue "grinding" week in week out ad infinitum. I'm sure they are ambitious and want to develop Villa into a respected and exciting team. In my opinion their chosen way forward is obvious, so the only uncertainty is whether they go for it from day one, or whether they are happy to allow the status quo to continue for the next few months. FFP may put a brake on ambition initially depending on our ability to come up with solutions, but positive change will happen. The question is when? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) Well, people wanted Bruce gone, guess you are getting your wish... Look, hiring ‘young’ managers seems to be the in thing at the moment and in some ways it’s working. Moving away from the old guard that flip between clubs every couple of years. I wasn’t in the Bruce out camp, but change is a good thing provided we give the new manager the tools to be successful. Edited July 24, 2018 by Tayls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I'm so on the fence about this whole thing. It could work out brilliantly but it equally could be a disaster (there are far more examples of the latter than the former) It's just such a huge gamble and huge gambles are exactly what got us into this mess in the first place. Its easy to say the "tried and tested" method hasn't worked, but as a club we've flipped from tried and tested to complete gamble almost at will and since MON neither have worked. There are merits to both sides, I'd be excited with a new direction but equally wary about how long we'll stick around if it's not going great, that's when we'll look to someone with a bit of experience to steady the ship before we get bored of the style and take a gamble on an unknown again etc etc, the cycle seems never ending. Its easiest to just sit back and see how everything goes, get behind the team and manager regardless of who it is and have some trust that our new owners actually have a clue what they're doing. Fingers crossed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tayls said: Well, people wanted Bruce gone, guess you are getting your wish... Look, hiring ‘young’ managers seems to be the in thing at the moment and in some ways it’s working. Moving away from the old guard that flip between clubs every couple of years. I wasn’t in the Bruce out camp, but change is a good thing provided we give the new manager the tools to be successful. Last 6 clubs to go up only Wagner is an inexperienced manager 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Godders Posted July 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 24, 2018 I know this is massively unpopular, but personally, I think we'd be pushing for promotion again under Bruce this year if the squad stays as it is. *runs for cover* 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I'm kind of warming to the idea of Henry. Football, for the most part, bores me nowadays, at least this will be fun. I like Bruce, but he's so magnolia. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted July 24, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2018 35 minutes ago, Nigel said: What the hell is a Xia gamble? He hired Bruce, the equivalent of collecting the £250 on Who wants to be a millionaire! RDM Plus the high cost high risk players he allowed the managers to purchase . Henry is a wild gamble on success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I do wonder what the percentage would be if you were offered the choice a week ago today of one of these options. 1: Xia in charge without a pot to pee in and Bruce staying in charge. 2: Two Billionares taking over and Tierry Henry becoming the new manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: Last 6 clubs to go up only Wagner is an inexperienced manager I know this can sound daft but I’m not at all sure that ‘going up’ will be at the front of their minds. If ( IF) they apply the competence they’ve had elsewhere to or Club they will surely see what we can all see. Which is the Club have suffered hugely in comparison to those which ‘ should’ be our peers....I’d take Spurs as an example. Why ? Short termism. Its not how often the Manager of the First team changes that is the critical factor in success over the long term. What is critical over the long term is a long term objective, with a sustainable long term plan. So, if we assume the long term objective is to be roughly where Spurs are, for the sake of an example....things that would spring to mind would be scouting, youth development, sports science, holistic style of play throughout the club, planned financial progression, and so on. Yes, football is ultimately about aiming for promotion, cups, glory.....but in this day and age to DO that there’s a lot of structural stuff needed and I reckon everything they do will be consistent with that. As such, they will, in my view, see Promotion as a by product of “ getting it right”. Logically, then, they won’t need to consider how likely someone is to get promoted, they will prioritise how likely someone is to deliver their plan. That, of course, may be Bruce. Or they may retain Bruce while they restructure other elements. But it’s my opinion they will do neither, and appoint a new Manager and DOF. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holteend1982 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Zatman said: Last 6 clubs to go up only Wagner is an inexperienced manager And look at the way he took them up, wasn't exactly this new style of football everyone bangs on about with young new managers it was some of the most defensive football ever seen. All 3 play off games were even draws and they got through on penalties, finishing 5th on minus GD says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Godders said: I know this is massively unpopular, but personally, I think we'd be pushing for promotion again under Bruce this year if the squad stays as it is. *runs for cover* I agree with you. For me it’s a big fat no to Thierry. Yes Bruce is far from perfect but Thierry is just a name and an unbelievable risk and I don’t think we are in a place for such a big gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I'm torn on this rumour. On one hand, I'd welcome a change from Bruce. I'm not a strong 'Bruce Out-er', but I'm definitely one of the people that thinks his football is boring, lacks a Plan B, lacks imagination in tactics, transfers and utilisation of available youth. But I feel that his stability is what we need at this point. On the other hand, Henry is completely unproven, and has no experience other than punditry and a season or two as a coach for Belgium. Bould coming as number 2 would add some experience, which is good, but I still firmly believe that managers like Henry, Gerrard and Lampard shouldn't be dropped straight into roles that are expected to finish Top 4-6 in their respective leagues. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Will this squad get relegated while there are several very poor teams in the Championship? If the answer is no then we can afford to take a chance. We can also afford to make changes if our first attempt fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted July 24, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2018 Could be a Bould choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 30 minutes ago, Godders said: I know this is massively unpopular, but personally, I think we'd be pushing for promotion again under Bruce this year if the squad stays as it is. *runs for cover* on what basis? Genuinely interested to know what you think will be different this coming season and why Bruce would be able to achieve promotion this year? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 26 minutes ago, dounavilla said: I do wonder what the percentage would be if you were offered the choice a week ago today of one of these options. 1: Xia in charge without a pot to pee in and Bruce staying in charge. 2: Two Billionares taking over and Tierry Henry becoming the new manager. Stability is key! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyjavfc Posted July 24, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2018 Big Ron (experienced) - Success Brian Little (relatively inexperienced) - Success John Gregory (relatively inexperienced) - Success Graham Taylor mkII (experienced) - Failure DoL (relatively experienced) - Failure MoN (experienced) - Success Houllier (experienced) - Failure Mcleish (experienced) - Failure Lambert (moderately experienced) - ??? Tom Sherwood (inexperienced) - Failure Remi Garde (inexperienced) - Failure Bobby Di Matteo (relatively inexperienced) - Failure Steve Bruce (experienced ) - ??? Try and draw any conclusions from that mixed bag! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I posted in the Steve Bruce thread not so long ago (it's here if you fancy a read) with a list of reasons why we should keep hold of him for this coming season. And I still stand by a lot of that reasoning, however... I can't argue with what @villabromsgrove has said in his posts above. It's hard to see us making long term progress under Bruce, he's either a band-aid to keep us competitive in this division or at best he gets us up somehow and we probably go half, maybe a full season with him before needing to move on. He isn't the long term future of Aston Villa. So the question for me is do we hang around and play it safe for a year or two, or do we roll the dice now on a potential long term solution. We don't know what the new owners have planned. For all we know, this has been lined up for months, transfer targets identified, FFP loopholes explored etc etc. They've just saved us from the brink of administration, so I'm happy for them to do what they see best so long as it's not gambling with the future of our club's existence. Also, consider this. If we are able to spend money, who do you want spending it? Take away the loans he brought in, SB's transfer record looks like this... Neil Taylor Birkir Bjarnasson Conor Hourihane James Bree Henri Lansbury Scott Hogan Chris Samba Ahmed Elmohamady Glenn Whelan Out of 9 permanent transfers, I think you can only claim one to be a real success. The rest are either poor, average or yet to fully prove themselves. Fresh thinking in terms of both the football we play as well as the players we bring in is needed! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, One For The Road said: Ok. And my thoughts on our state are based on knowledge. We are in turmoil. It's that simple. Surely we were in turmoil, but now things aren’t half as bad ? So maybe we are in oil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 He won’t be given time, we will be 15th or lower by December and he will be sacked. This will go full Di Matteo. And having said all that, 15th or higher would probably be a success given that our team has been torn apart. I’d be more comfortable sticking with Bruce for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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