terrytini Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, One For The Road said: Haha. You have got to be kidding. OF COURSE we bloody well are!!! We are having to sell off our best players because we are in breach of FFP of we don't. We have already lost several of the players who helped us get to the Play Off Final and we are about to lose several more, with no really way of replacing them. I genuinely can't believe you don't think we are a club in turmoil. Wishful thinking on an astronomical scale. No im not kidding, or ridiculous, nor guilty of wishful thinking. I just posed a question...and indeed it’s my view we are not in turmoil. You have basically said we are in turmoil because we have to sell some players. Your view does not become fact just because you add in some adjectives to describe those who disagree with it. Fine if that’s your view but it’s perfectly reasonable to argue that having to sell players is not only NOT turmoil, it is an ever present feature for the majority of Clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 44 minutes ago, Nigel said: Is it pessimism? Every manager is a gamble, but you have to play the odds! This may work out, and we be smashing up the league playing beautiful football, but the fact is not even Henry knows if this will happen. Its a shot in the dark! Now considering we will be in an even worse state next season if we dont go up, is it a good thing that we go for a man who hasnt even began to understand the pressure he will be under; That can easily jump ship back to sky if this doesnt work? Yes it is pessimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 11 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: We keep hearing that keeping Bruce would be a risk because it would mean another year in the Championship without getting promoted. That's a very real possibility under Henry, why is it suddenly not a risk when Henry is in charge? Oh it's because he'll take the club in a new direction and install a new indentity. great, but will he? Why do people think that a manager who has never managed before, with no experience of building a team or installing an identity will be good at doing that? We still don't know the extent to the players we need to sell off. If it's a lot, then relegation is a very real possibility if Henry isn't as good as we all hope (and it would be a real possibility under many managers, this isn't some sort of vendetta against Henry) Once again we keep hearing things like "He can't be worse than bruce at this..." "Won't be any worse than Bruce at that" "Can't fail to be an upgrade on Bruce..." "Oh well there's no way he'll be worse than Bruce..." Why do people think this? This is exactly what we heard about Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Black, Di Matteo compared to their predecessor and it was almost always not the case. Hell, it's exactly what people were saying when Lerner sold to Xia, "he can't be any worse than Lerner" and look how that turned out. We almost went bust. VillaTalk has a real habit of when someone falls out of favour, they are suddenly the worst person in the world at that job. That seems to have happened with Bruce. He's fallen out of favour with some and people just seem to think he's some buffoon who doesn't know what he's doing. In an ideal world I'd replace Bruce with someone better. But this notion that it's a piece of piss to go out there and appoint the first manager you see and he'll easily be an upgrade on bruce is just nonsense. This notion that nobody could be worse than bruce, or Henry can't fail but be an upgrade on Bruce isn't just nonsense, it's dangerous. All that being said, I actually like Thierry Henry as a player, a pundit and a person. If the club have properly recruited him and think he's the man for the job then of course I'll support him and yes there will be a part of me that is excited by the prospect that he MIGHT end up being really good. But how people can overlook the potential downside of it is beyond me. It is a massive risk. It's one that MIGHT pay off big time and we'll all be looking back in 12 months time saying how brilliant our new owners are at making such a ballsy move. But believe me, we could also be looking back in 12 months wondering what the **** they were doing sacking a manager with the calibre of Steve Bruce and appointing a complete novice during a period of uncertainty. I actually agree with a lot of that but Bruce has to go for me. We need a new ethos, strategy and playing style. We need to plan for the next 2 to 3 years to build a squad that can challenge. I don't expect anything but mid-table this season. I am sure Bruce would get that but then what? We know how he plays football and how he sets his teams up. We know that in a years time we will start again with a completely different set of players and again hope he can get the best out of them. He had the best if not the second best squad in the league last season and he finished 4th. I don't see how he can better that? We can't rely on experienced players on high wages anymore. We need good coaches, scouts and tacticians to get us out of this league. Bruce is none of those. I wouldn't personally go for Henry but he has good experience at youth level and with Belgium. The Belgian players rave about his knowledge and his coaching. I would expect him to have an experience team behind him and maybe someone experienced above him. One thing is for certain Bruce should go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 If we are to gamble on a unproven rookie for a manager then might as well take a punt on Terry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 24, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 minute ago, omariqy said: I actually agree with a lot of that but Bruce has to go for me. We need a new ethos, strategy and playing style. We need to plan for the next 2 to 3 years to build a squad that can challenge. I don't expect anything but mid-table this season. I am sure Bruce would get that but then what? We know how he plays football and how he sets his teams up. We know that in a years time we will start again with a completely different set of players and again hope he can get the best out of them. He had the best if not the second best squad in the league last season and he finished 4th. I don't see how he can better that? We can't rely on experienced players on high wages anymore. We need good coaches, scouts and tacticians to get us out of this league. Bruce is none of those. I wouldn't personally go for Henry but he has good experience at youth level and with Belgium. The Belgian players rave about his knowledge and his coaching. I would expect him to have an experience team behind him and maybe someone experienced above him. One thing is for certain Bruce should go. And I agree with a lot of that. I think Bruce should go too (with some caveats) However the point I was addressing was querying why people saw a risk with henry. As if it was a risk free appointment. Just trying to add some balance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 28 minutes ago, mjmooney said: I see the Henry haters are lining up already, excitedly looking forward to their "I told you so's". And I suspect that a lot of it is because he's French. If there's one thing that certain about football, it's that nothing is certain about football. Whoever we have as manager, they could fail disastrously. Or succeed magnificently. Bruce, Smith, Pulis, Allardyce, Wagner, Henry. You just can't know what will happen. Me, I'll accept whoever the new owners appoint, and wait and see. FWIW, I thought Bruce did OK, but it's probably time for a change. If it's an untried manager, so be it. But I could do without all this VT negativity. Its bit like buying a used car from one of those shady parking lots - it might be all right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Just now, Kingman said: If we are to gamble on a unproven rookie for a manager then might as well take a punt on Terry. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Give me Henry over Lampard - he'll be phoning up 'Arry for advice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 34 minutes ago, Welsh_Villan said: Only worry is if the Henry appointment is true then it looks like villa are going down the immediate success route again. Not sure how I feel about that. Hope it’s not the splash the cash and get us up in 2 seasons plan that’s all. Does it ? - I think we are going down the immediate failure route ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincenzo Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I am but a simple man as Lynyrd Skynyrd would say, but why are we appointing an unproven former player with no managerial experience if it isn’t purely for publicity Why not gamble instead with a proven experienced manager who knows the Championship...someone like Dean Smith Now I know that many will deride this idea but Henry is a far bigger gamble imo I hope it turns out to be a master stroke but I think the odds are against it UTV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 35 minutes ago, stewiek2 said: At this moment in time the Henry / Zola comparisons are a bit unfair. Every man and his dog knew Zola was a sh** manager. Even that Watford team that nearly went up under him was nearly full of loans. Henry is a huge gamble, but it's the unknown that is the issue. It may be a masterstroke, we just don't know. But far less of a gamble had it been a week ago and Xia calling the shots. It won't be a masterstroke. Some billionaires watching the world cup - decide to buy a football club - they want a manager from the world cup - and low and behold one becomes available. sure we might get lucky , but it doesn't bode well for future if that is the depth of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratvillan Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Don't know. We are getting rid of a manager who got us the the play off final - but lost. The question is would we go one step further with potentially a weaker team under Bruce? Probably not. but, can we guarantee Henry would do better. Brilliant footballer but no real management experience, but can't believe the owners haven't got a dof, and loans lined up. I dont know, there's too many unknowns, all I do know is I'll give whoever gets the job my support for a season before I make a judgement. There almost was no villa last week - that's more worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 What was the name of that guy who was a translator in Portugal, got a shot in Porto... How many clubs has he managed before he became the 'chosen one'? It's a gamble, but not a gamble that's deemed to fail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted July 24, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2018 26 minutes ago, mjmooney said: I see the Henry haters are lining up already, excitedly looking forward to their "I told you so's". And I suspect that a lot of it is because he's French. If there's one thing that certain about football, it's that nothing is certain about football. Whoever we have as manager, they could fail disastrously. Or succeed magnificently. Bruce, Smith, Pulis, Allardyce, Wagner, Henry. You just can't know what will happen. Me, I'll accept whoever the new owners appoint, and wait and see. FWIW, I thought Bruce did OK, but it's probably time for a change. If it's an untried manager, so be it. But I could do without all this VT negativity. Think this is massively unfair (particularly implying racism with the skeptics among us) I have seen only valid questions being raised: "No experience", "Need stability" etc...not everyone will agree with those questions, but they're perfectly valid arguments. I've seen no "I just dont want/like him" posts from anyone. We have just faced a real possibility of administration and seem to be out of the woods on that front, but still do seem like we're going to have to sell the best young talent we've had in years, so i think the "Henry haters" can be forgiven for not being 100% jazzed about another upheaval less than 2 weeks before the start of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ColonelBlimp Posted July 24, 2018 Visiting Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 24, 2018 OK chaps and chapesses. Help me out here. What's the difference between you appointing Henry and us appointing Lampard? Both have no managerial experience and yet Lampard is welcomed with open arms and we're all (mostly) excited about what he could do with the squad and younger players. Seems to be split down the middle with Henry. Is it because we had Rowett and we're fed up with turgid football? Does Bruce get a free pass because you got to Wembley? What is it? 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Just now, Stratvillan said: Don't know. We are getting rid of a manager who got us the the play off final - but lost. The question is would we go one step further with potentially a weaker team under Bruce? Probably not. but, can we guarantee Henry would do better. Brilliant footballer but no real management experience, but can't believe the owners haven't got a dof, and loans lined up. I dont know, there's too many unknowns, all I do know is I'll give whoever gets the job my support for a season before I make a judgement. There almost was no villa last week - that's more worrying. Where on earth have you got that idea from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 take a punt on Terry - has he got his badges? that said I'm assuming Thierry has honestly not a clue what to make of him, would be very interested who he brings with him both in terms of coaching help (steve bould would make me feel a bit more comfortable) and transfer targets, i'd imagine "do you want to play for Henry" comes with quite a draw for young attacking players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mic09 said: What was the name of that guy who was a translator in Portugal, got a shot in Porto... How many clubs has he managed before he became the 'chosen one'? It's a gamble, but not a gamble that's deemed to fail. He managed uniao leiria and benfica before Porto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 24, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mic09 said: What was the name of that guy who was a translator in Portugal, got a shot in Porto... How many clubs has he managed before he became the 'chosen one'? It's a gamble, but not a gamble that's deemed to fail. Assuming you mean before he became "The Special One", he'd managed 3 clubs. Oh and he'd won 2 league titles, 2 cups, a UEFA League and a Champions League by then too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts