Keyblade Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 We were essentially playing 4-4-2 last season with Barkley anyway 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 I'm having a hard time believing that they plan 5-3-2/3-5-2 as a regular formation. (Of course, you can't rule out any formation as a one-off tactical response to the other team.) If you did this, the forwards and backs look like a given... Watkins - Ings ? - ? - ? Targett - Mings -Tuanzebe - Konsa - Cash So who do you play as the three midfielders? We have Dougie, McGinn, Sanson, Buendia, Young, Traore, Bailey, Ramsey, potentially JPB and Chewey. We're overloaded. If you consider who they've bought, I just don't think 5-3-2 is what they have in mind. The pieces fit better with a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, especially when you consider who covers for/rotates with whom. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted August 9, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2021 I believe when everyone is fit we want to play a 4231 with Ings playing in the 3 behind Watkins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 It really is intriguing. Clearly Dean Smith and staff have been planning for this. While they played 4 4 2 today and I could see us doing so again against some opposition in the league I still think there is something else in the works. For me 4 3 3 with a rotating front three still makes most sense. Bailey Ings Watkins Buendia Luis McGinn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 6 hours ago, Keyblade said: We were essentially playing 4-4-2 last season with Barkley anyway And 4-4-1 without the ball 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted August 9, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2021 8 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Why? So, I'll preface this comment by saying that I believe either a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 suits our team far more than either a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2. And i'm basing this opinion on the current set of players we have. Obviously this might change if we bring in more players. 3-5-2 In general, 3-5-2 is a formation I like, quite a lot. However, we have a back 4 that are very settled evident by the lack of goals conceded last season and to break that up brings new challenges. I always feel like teams need to be well drilled playing 3-5-2 for it to be effective, and if it's going to be an option for us this season I would have liked for some of the pre-season games to feature this formation. The other aspect of 3-5-2 that confuses me a little is where Bailey and/or Traore fit in with that formation. As I assume both Targett and Cash would be providing the width. Though, there are positives and you would imagine that we would be greater threat on set-pieces and better defensively with 3 centre backs on the pitch. 4-4-2 Diamond I just don't see how we shape up with 4-4-2 diamond at all. Again, we've signed wide players such as Bailey and I just don't see how they would fit. With our current squad of players, I'd guess it would be a 4-4-2 narrow diamond (as opposed to a wide diamond) as playing with width would leave the DM too exposed, and Nakamba isn't good enough for that. With Nakamba, McGinn, Sanson and Buendia I think a diamond could work with the width coming from the fullbacks. It would be interesting to see it in action but we'd surely just get overloaded down the flanks?! Ultimately, It will be interesting to see how we setup. We've been quite one dimensional for some time so maybe I'm completely wrong and either formation would be brilliant for us. Hope it would be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 I'm thinking we will stumble on our best starting 11 over the next few weeks. We have a few little knocks and niggles at the moment - so players may go in as a stop gap who then actually perform better then the guy pencilled in for that spot. I can't get out of my mind that Ings is a much better finisher than Watkins - but Watkins gives us so much more movement and himself got a decent quota of goals. The nightmare scenario is we flip flop between the two options never establishing a settled front line. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kiwivillan Posted August 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, PieFacE said: So, I'll preface this comment by saying that I believe either a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 suits our team far more than either a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2. I thought from watching Buendia for Norwich and Walsall game as much as confirmed it he won't play in front 3 of 433 4231. He'll have free role behind front 3 of 433 as an 8. Look at his positioning for both assists. One of his biggest strengths is tackling besides his vision and creativity With Ings signing and Watkins having played a lot LW with Smith at Brentford can see Watkins Ings Bailey(Traore) Watkins job will still be to get in behind the defenders and he ran at them last season on the left a lot anyway. Watkins and Ings great on the press. Bailey and Traore both questionable defence off the ball but waiting in the wings behind can be Buendia in the free role. Add McGinn in the middle 3 with another be it Sanson, Luiz or a 6 like Nakamba or another 6 or 8 of we make that rumoured CM signing. I think that's a hell of a team. Ings will probably play 60-70 mins for preservation and Watkins can slot in up front as per usual Edited August 9, 2021 by Kiwivillan 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 I'd be more comfortable with 5-3-2 than 4-4-2 but I still don't like that formation. You're basically sacrificing an attacking player for a defender which is defensive by nature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuffolkVillan Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 On 09/08/2021 at 10:05, Kiwivillan said: I thought from watching Buendia for Norwich and Walsall game as much as confirmed it he won't play in front 3 of 433 4231. He'll have free role behind front 3 of 433 as an 8. Look at his positioning for both assists. One of his biggest strengths is tackling besides his vision and creativity With Ings signing and Watkins having played a lot LW with Smith at Brentford can see Watkins Ings Bailey(Traore) Watkins job will still be to get in behind the defenders and he ran at them last season on the left a lot anyway. Watkins and Ings great on the press. Bailey and Traore both questionable defence off the ball but waiting in the wings behind can be Buendia in the free role. Add McGinn in the middle 3 with another be it Sanson, Luiz or a 6 like Nakamba or another 6 or 8 of we make that rumoured CM signing. I think that's a hell of a team. Ings will probably play 60-70 mins for preservation and Watkins can slot in up front as per usual Bang on I reckon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 On 09/08/2021 at 02:53, Monkeypuzzle said: How about this formation as a way of fitting in our best players and not playing them out of positions they are familiar with? Ings Watkins Ings Bailey Watkins Buendia Bailey Buendia Douglas McGinn or Douglas McGinn Targett Mings Konsa Cash Targett Mings Konsa Cash Martinez Martinez Subs: Steer, Hause, Young, Sanson, Nakamba, Traore, Philogene-Bidace Rotation: Guilbert, Tuanzebe, Ramsey, Chukwuemeka, El Ghazi Anyone I've not mentioned I am assuming we won't see at any point this season. Don't worry if you'd swap the odd player here and there from the bench, it's the formation I'm more thinking of for this. Lots of people keep talking about 4-4-2 or some other way of playing two up top but we are best when using 4-2-3-1 or some version of 4-3-3 I feel. Obviously this list requires everyone to be fit and settled so I don't expect to see it straight away, but the formation allows our better players to all play in areas they can be effective. Watkins is a big upgrade on Grealish when it comes to closing down on the wing or as a wide forward, Ings is similar to Watkins at closing down and I believe that someone showed stats that suggested that Bailey was better than Traore at closing down. Most importantly, Buendia's defensive work is head and shoulders above Barkley's. Combined, that should greatly reduce the pressure on the defense and deeper lying midfielders. Both Watkins and Bailey can cut inside on to their stronger foot, but both are quite comfortable on their weaker foot if needed. Buendia's defensive work is a key reason I think he would be best in the middle rather than on the right. To be fair the front four can largely mix around throughout games to disrupt their markers. The majority of our bench and rotation players don't feel like a huge step down in quality any more. Another deep lying midfielder would be lovely but isn't vital and we have several youngsters who can really start to make an impact this season. Good times. Let's just try to keep everyone fit and healthy! Going on the current personel I can see the formation I have bolded happening but the 2 in front of the defence is up for grabs Marv will start the season in place of Luiz and I think Sanson will push McGinn for a starting place once he is up to speed. The formation on the right is interesting but you couldn't sit Mcginn along Luiz it would need two DM's IMO. Didn't Mourinho play something similar to great effect whilst at Inter? Not sure how it would stand up in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 On 03/03/2021 at 22:38, HeyAnty said: You know the difference in a top side and a good side? Its having every player giving you 8 out of 10 nearly every game, instead of a 9 one game and a 6 in the game after. Unfortunately we don’t have enough of them players at minute to be a top side. Well said, Consistency is key. Its a really good point you make, because we are so wrapped up with metrics of some sort, or formations....We forget this crucial bit. Its still No 1 piece of criteria for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) If we end up going down the 3-5-2 route we need another CB for cover. Edit* Infact no we need another quality CB we have Hause and Axel as cover. Edited August 10, 2021 by zab6359 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 On 09/08/2021 at 09:56, hippo said: I'm thinking we will stumble on our best starting 11 over the next few weeks. We have a few little knocks and niggles at the moment - so players may go in as a stop gap who then actually perform better then the guy pencilled in for that spot. I can't get out of my mind that Ings is a much better finisher than Watkins - but Watkins gives us so much more movement and himself got a decent quota of goals. The nightmare scenario is we flip flop between the two options never establishing a settled front line. I can't get out of my mind.....That I see Ollie and Danny forming a formidable partnership. I don't get this notion of Ollie out wide Malarkey.....Ollie has established himself as a striker, despite the add ons of his other work, he is not going to give that up and I don't think Dean wants him to.....push Ollie out wide and I think we'll lose him, to another club. Sure Ollie will drift out naturally, at times, but thats the essence of movement and the Nous at losing defenders. No for me they are both central strikers, one maybe behind the other slightly, but they will work out their positioning in time....thats the chemistry they will develop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax_Villa Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 One thing I am concerned about is our defence now that Terry has left. I know he wasn’t our defensive coach but he has helped Mings and Konsa become better defenders as well as our full backs. I think that his presence will be missed this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Steero113 Posted August 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 10, 2021 On 09/08/2021 at 00:40, Keyblade said: We were essentially playing 4-4-1 last season with Barkley anyway Fixed that for you. 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) 55 minutes ago, zab6359 said: The formation on the right is interesting but you couldn't sit Mcginn along Luiz it would need two DM's IMO. The central pairing we beat Liverpool 7-2 with amongst other games? Edited August 10, 2021 by Kiwivillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, Steero113 said: Fixed that for you. Underrated comment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) On 09/08/2021 at 10:05, Kiwivillan said: I thought from watching Buendia for Norwich and Walsall game as much as confirmed it he won't play in front 3 of 433 4231. He'll have free role behind front 3 of 433 as an 8. Look at his positioning for both assists. One of his biggest strengths is tackling besides his vision and creativity With Ings signing and Watkins having played a lot LW with Smith at Brentford can see Watkins Ings Bailey(Traore) Watkins job will still be to get in behind the defenders and he ran at them last season on the left a lot anyway. Watkins and Ings great on the press. Bailey and Traore both questionable defence off the ball but waiting in the wings behind can be Buendia in the free role. Add McGinn in the middle 3 with another be it Sanson, Luiz or a 6 like Nakamba or another 6 or 8 of we make that rumoured CM signing. I think that's a hell of a team. Ings will probably play 60-70 mins for preservation and Watkins can slot in up front as per usual Exactly what I think we’ll do too, with Ings adopting a Firmino-esque slightly withdrawn role, and Watkins - Bailey as the Mane - Salah inside forward threat. That could be really effective with Buendia in support as a roaming AM, but offering so much more defensively than either Barkley or Grealish. Edited August 10, 2021 by Awol 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Awol said: Exactly what I think we’ll do too, with Ings adopting a Firmino-esque slightly withdrawn role, and Watkins - Bailey as the Mane - Salah inside forward threat. That could be really effective with Buendia in support as a roaming AM, but offering so much more defensively than either Barkley or Grealish. Think/hope so too. Although I don't think that might be the best system for getting the best out of Sanson or McGinn as I see them more as marauding box to box 8's and Luiz could benefit from having a more defense oriented player next to him. Nakamba Is a less skilled player than all those 3 but much better at some things that we might need off the ball. We are getting there but central of the pitch is not 100% yet. Could do with a different type CM but that would leave us with a lot of senior CM's fighting for only 2 spots which might not be ideal. Although I'd be fine with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts