Team shape, tactics and personnel

[ZL-]

One thing I don't buy is that the Ings transfer came up so unexpectedly that it has thrown a spanner into our tactics/formation as we need to adapt to potentially having to play 2 strikers.

Tammy was rumoured all summer and by very reputable sources I think we've wanted 2 top striker for a while. Whilst I agree the benefit for depth is very necessary if Tammy came we would be in the exact same situation where it would feel unfathomable to not start either Tammy or Watkins (Tammy for sure wouldn't join if it was anything else).

Whilst the 4-3-3 definitely picks itself a lot easier with 1 striker I feel Jack leaving has kinda given us the option to rebuild the team strategy as everything was created to be conducive to Jack, and I think Shakespeare has really advocated at the minimum for the option of 2 striker formations.

4-3-3 may be the de-facto formation for the likes of Klopp and Guardiola with an embarrassment of riches, the likes of Leicester, Chelsea and Leeds which I think are seen as more tactically reactive managers, regularly switch between back 3, 2 striker systems, standard 4-3-3 etc and I for one will be open to us having that tactical flexibility until we carve out a more specific identity with our new look side.

[CVByrne]

I think a 4 4 1 1 is essentially a 4 2 3 1.  IF the two central midfielders act as a double pivot. IF there is only one pivot/DM it's more a 4 1 4 1.  4 4 2 in the way it was used a decade or two ago is essentially dead. Primarily because it had wingers hugging the touchline putting crosses into the box 

So I think the key diference will be between a 4 2 3 1 (4 4 1 1) and a 4 3 3 in the following way. Assuming back 5 remain constant

 

Watkins

Bailey Ings Buendia

McGinn Nakamba

 

Watkins Ings Bailey

McGinn Luiz Sanson

 

The main difference here is 4 attacking players vs 3 attacking players. I can see the first played against teams where we believe we will have most possession and opponents will sit deeper. Home to bottom half teams for example. 

The second option would be for away to top half teams, say away to Liverpool. Ings can drop into midfield to make it a 4 when we need to win the ball back. We then have Watkins and Bailey as inside forwards with their pace for rapid transition on counter. This forces opposition teams to sit a little deeper thus opening up space in midfield. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by CVByrne

[zab6359]

25 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

The central pairing we beat Liverpool 7-2 with amongst other games?

Yes, perhaps we should think about bringing Barkley back and hope Trez is back to full fitness.

Edited August 10, 2021 by zab6359

[Kiwivillan]

14 minutes ago, zab6359 said:

Yes, perhaps we should think about bringing Barkley back and hope Trez is back to full fitness.

How good is it that we've signed upgrades on those 2

[HKP90]

15 minutes ago, zab6359 said:

Yes, perhaps we should think about bringing Barkley back and hope Trez is back to full fitness.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Reivax_Villa said:

One thing I am concerned about is our defence now that Terry has left.

I know he wasn’t our defensive coach but he has helped Mings and Konsa become better defenders as well as our full backs.

I think that his presence will be missed this season.

 

I think a player of the profile of JT will always be missed.....I thought JT was the defensive coach, who was then?

JT never made any bones of where his heart lies, so it was always going to be a shelf life, before he moved on.

[thefeet1980]

I think this is how we line up when everyone is fit. Hope the formatting isn’t messed up.      
 

                            Ings

         Watkins                   Bailey

                        Buendía   

      Nakamba/Doug    SJM/Sanson

Targett     Mings         Konsa       Cash

                          Martinez  

[MSvillain]

Based on Ashley Preece's description of 442/4222 I imagine deano is replicating tuchels tactics, which can be extremely fluid in-game 

[MrBlack]

51 minutes ago, thefeet1980 said:

I think this is how we line up when everyone is fit. Hope the formatting isn’t messed up.      
 

                            Ings

         Watkins                   Bailey

                        Buendía   

      Nakamba/Doug    SJM/Sanson

Targett     Mings         Konsa       Cash

                          Martinez  

Came here to post exactly this ^

Young will see a lot of game time also, i'm just not sure where yet.

[Shay]

Attacking 4-3-3; Watkins cutting in to central positions ala CR7 and Buendia moving left wing when on attack into a 4-4-2/4-2-4 and Buendia moving back to central mid when defending/team off the ball.

                      Martinez

               Konsa          Mings

 Cash        Nakamba/Luiz         Targett

                SJM           Buendia

      Bailey          Ings          Watkins

 

ala Real Madrid 2013-14 Champions League and Copa del Rey winners.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Shay

[CVByrne]

Dean Smith - "We could play three up front with the players we've got now. We could play two up front or one and a short striker so what it's given us is a lot more adaptability this year rather than an over-reliance."

4 3 3, 4 4 2, 4 4 1 1 / 4 2 3 1

All available now. I feel 4 3 3 will be the most used. Watkins/Bailey/Ings/Traore being the forwards and Buendia a midfielder. Would love that if we get the balance of the other two right

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Whilst we argue over what plan A is likely to be, the simplest solution is to not have a plan A but match up as per the opponent. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Dean Smith - "We could play three up front with the players we've got now. We could play two up front or one and a short striker so what it's given us is a lot more adaptability this year rather than an over-reliance."

4 3 3, 4 4 2, 4 4 1 1 / 4 2 3 1

All available now. I feel 4 3 3 will be the most used. Watkins/Bailey/Ings/Traore being the forwards and Buendia a midfielder. Would love that if we get the balance of the other two right

for me....The success of the forwards will rely on our ability to control midfield better than we have......I think the club will address that.

I see a better balance entering our play too.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Whilst we argue over what plan A is likely to be, the simplest solution is to not have a plan A but match up as per the opponent. 

I think I read somewhere that the Pro's are sceptical of this plan A, B or C suggestion....they seem to scoff at it.

I also gleaned Biesla changes format up to 7 times during a game, which is possibly extreme.

[gwi1890]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

for me....The success of the forwards will rely on our ability to control midfield better than we have......I think the club will address that.

I see a better balance entering our play too.

Technical players in Buendia and Luizs/ Sanson along with Mcginn’s drive the midfield should be able to control a game I agree we could do with another midfielder a step up from Nakamba whilst I do really like Nakamba I just don’t think he’s quick enough in possession we don’t have Jack to get us up the pitch this season to having players that are quick in possession will be important.

[maqroll]

 We are really close to having quality depth throughout the team. Shame we can't jump right into a European campaign this season!

 

[AV82]

Can we take a moment to appreciate exactly where we've come from and where we are right now?

 

[MrBlack]

2 minutes ago, AV82 said:

Can we take a moment to appreciate exactly where we've come from and where we are right now?

 

What we'd give for Gana now... the rest of that lineup though.. no surprise he was shit for us back then. 

[ciggiesnbeer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB_LAxz-hZ4

20 seconds in

Smith on our team shape and where our signings fit in.

tldr: He wants the flexibility to play different ways and these signings give him that strength.

Edited August 11, 2021 by ciggiesnbeer

[TRO]

6 hours ago, AV82 said:

Can we take a moment to appreciate exactly where we've come from and where we are right now?

 

That is certainly a perspective reminder.