Carney Chukwuemeka

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

I thought it was in… beer everywhere…

I did.

[Enda]

38 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I didn't think he was that great. Tried things that he cam get away with in youth or reserve games but hopefully he will learn

Good movement for the chance but is way down the pecking order for me 

Agreed. Bags of promise but not the finished article. A year in the Championship, say with the likes of Blackburn or someone, would have done him the world of good.

[TRO]

I thought, he did ok tonight....He was thrown in to the Lions Den for a reason.

He as to get up to speed with the pace of this league and he has to start somewhere, why not against one of the best.....The physicality will be new to him too, this is where, he starts learning.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, lexicon said:

If I'm being super harsh, he probably should have scored but he did so well to get into that position in the first place. Didn't get to see a lot of the ball but it's a good standard for him to experience and push himself towards.

unfortunately, it was great goalkeeping too.

[OutByEaster?]

Worth noting that Chukwuemeka came on today in what was essentially the space left by Bailey - the choice wasn't him or Ramsey, it was him or El Ghazi.

I think the narrower 4-3-2-1 gives him a position in which he can develop and where we can make room for his ability on the ball without having to rely on his pressing and aggression. 

I think it's been hard to figure out how he was going to get minutes in midfield in a Gerrard team, turns out the answer is he won't, he'll be a wide forward in a very narrow formation. I think this opens up a real opportunity for him to get some time on the pitch, especially with Bailey and Traore out.

 

[TheLegendOfLeonBailey31]

Would have been a perfect "star is born" moment... and probably gotten us a extremely pleasing/rewarding result.  I came out of my seat ready to erupt.

 

Ballsy sub by Stevie G.  I like it.

[Farlz]

My god it would’ve been actual carnage if he put that chance away. What a moment it could’ve been. 

Didn't watch the game so can’t comment on his cameo but I’m encouraged that Gerrard decided to trust him in a game like this. 

[DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth]

Have to say I thought he was out of contract this summer, but Gerrard says he has 18months left. Feel a bit more at ease at the contract situation, but still need him to sign on.

[Mr_Dogg]

Only on VT would you see criticism after his display last night.

He's just turned 18 and has a handful of appearances. To even make an impact is impressive. 

[M_Afro]

I think we should keep Chuk in the 10 role. He is perfect for the position. He also brings a bit more control and physicality to our team, more so than our other 10’s. He may well develop into a great 8 but for now, if we are going to get him minutes, it should be as a 10. If he can get a goal I think we will see him really progress quickly.

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Who? Ramsey?

I've consistently said he's a very promising player who has a big future at the club. That's still true as far as I'm concerned.
The point I'm making here is he's not currently good enough to be a first choice player for us in the PL. He is sometimes, but he's too inconsistent currently.

It'll come though, he's made huge leaps already this season.

Do you not think he's good enough?

Fair enough. I thought you were saying Ramsey is not good enough for this league, full stop.   As for Carney I think he will be a top player. Still just a kid.

[villalad21]

39 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said:

Only on VT would you see criticism after his display last night.

He's just turned 18 and has a handful of appearances. To even make an impact is impressive. 

I don't judge players on age.

If you are playing for the first team I don't care if you are 15 or 40. I judge you as an Aston Villa player.

For me he did not look quite ready yet. Physically he is not strong enough yet.

[Mr_Dogg]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

I don't judge players on age.

If you are playing for the first team I don't care if you are 15 or 40. I judge you as an Aston Villa player.

For me he did not look quite ready yet. Physically he is not strong enough yet.

Ludicrous way to judge players. Managers have to play players or they'll never know what they're capable of.

And playing will strengthen players.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Could he fit in on the left? Carney seemed to move over to that position...could he and El Ghazi be in a fight for that role over the coming weeks?

[villaglint]

8 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Worth noting that Chukwuemeka came on today in what was essentially the space left by Bailey - the choice wasn't him or Ramsey, it was him or El Ghazi.

I think the narrower 4-3-2-1 gives him a position in which he can develop and where we can make room for his ability on the ball without having to rely on his pressing and aggression. 

I think it's been hard to figure out how he was going to get minutes in midfield in a Gerrard team, turns out the answer is he won't, he'll be a wide forward in a very narrow formation. I think this opens up a real opportunity for him to get some time on the pitch, especially with Bailey and Traore out.

 

Agreed but the injuries to wide players I think also open up a chance for JPB. He's more of a classic wide man but good eye for a pass, pace to stretch defenders and odd goal. Be interesting to see if either can make the most of their chances because with the busy Xmas run they will get them. 

Interesting the El Ghazi was behind Ashley Young and Carney last night. People been praising him for his "impact" off the bench in the last two games and that's fair but he did give the ball away about 7 times consecutively against Palace and I think that hasnt been missed by Gerrard. 

[jim]

Thought he did OK last night. 

Just checked he signed a three year contract 20th October last year so we have just under two years to convince him to stay.

 

[Stevo985]

Seeing as I brought up Ramsey and things seem to be getting misinterpreted, I'll explain what I meant.

 

1. I know Carney and Ramsey aren't the same position. That's exactly my point. Ramsey is a hugely promising player, but I think he is competing with McGinn/Nakamba/Luiz for that deeper lying central midfield position. As good as he is I don't think he's that threatening attacking wise. That's the main reason I'd like to see more of Carney and not Ramsey, because I think we'r emissing, and have been for a while, a player to slot into that number 10 role and provide a bit more penetration. From the small amount I've seen of Carney, he seems to be more likely to be that player

 

2. When is aid Ramsey wasn't a premier league player, I was talking about an established premier league starter. Which I don't think he is. I wasn't slagging him off, I rate him as a huge prospect, I just meant that due to some inconsistencies I think he's got a bit more developing to do before he's an established player. Yes I know he currently plays in the premier league, so if that's your definition then I agree, he's a Premier League player.

 

3. The two absolutely can, and probably will, play in the same team. My point is we're missing a number 10/attacking central midfielder more than we're missing a deep lying central midfielder, hence why I'd like to see more of Carney

[useless]

A U23 level Chukwuemeka has always played as an attack minded No.8, rather than an out and out No.10, same for whenever I've seen him play for England at youth level, it might be that we play him in a more advanced position for the first team to begin with so he has less defensive responsibilities to think about whilst he's learning and getting used to first team football, but I think it's worth remembering that playing as No.10 isn't his natural position, in fact Jacob Ramsey was probably just as attack minded, if not more so, at U23 level, Ramsey certainly had better goal scoring and assist stats, same for Aaron Ramsey, who's probably more of a No.10 than both of them, and who has far superior goal scoring stats to Chukwuemeka.

[HalfTimePost]

2 minutes ago, useless said:

A U23 level Chukwuemeka has always played as an attack minded No.8, rather than an out and out No.10, same for whenever I've seen him play for England at youth level, it might be that we play him in a more advanced position for the first team to begin with so he has less defensive responsibilities to think about whilst he's learning and getting used to first team football, but I think it's worth remembering that playing as No.10 isn't his natural position, in fact Jacob Ramsey was probably just as attack minded, if not more so, at U23 level, Ramsey certainly had better goal scoring and assist stats, same for Aaron Ramsey, who's probably more of a No.10 than both of them, and who has far superior goal scoring stats to Chukwuemeka.

I agree but to be fair Chuk played very advanced for the U23s when played as an 8 didn't he? He could definitely play as a 10, because he pushed up quite a bit anyway, I think had he been in almost any other academy he would've been played as a 10 as he isn't much of a presser in CM as an 8 but here we had two special talents to fit in with him and Aaron Ramsey who is certainly more of a 10, both playing at the same time.

Whilst Carney may well prove to be an 8 and dominate CM in the future of his career (with his physicality he certainly should be expecting to), the likelihood of him getting big numbers of minutes there this early in his career are slim. Especially as he isn't the energetic kind of player like say Bellingham or even our own Jacob Ramsey where the pressing, energy is higher and can make up for some of the gaps in their game earlier in the career.

[OutByEaster?]

I'd agree with a lot of that @Stevo985, but what I would say is that Gerrard is always going to play three midfielders with energy, it's a pressing midfield and there will never be space for a number ten like Carney in that - I think that's why people are making the point about Ramsey versus Chukwuemeka. Chukwuemeka will need to hugely develop and change his game in order to be considered to play there - in fact, as part of that midfield three I'd say he's currently behind five players in McGinn, Luiz, Ramsey, Sanson and Nakamba and he might well also be behind Iroegbunam for that role.

His immediate future isn't in the midfield three. I think last night we learned something - the way we now set up, with the removal of the traditional wingers and their replacement with narrower players - our 4-3-2-1 - gives us a position that Chukwuemeka can play and can play right now. I think that's where we'll see him for the next couple of seasons, It might be where he'll stay.

It was interesting to see last night that our width came from the full backs, but when the full backs came inside, it wasn't the 10's that went out wide to give us width, it was the 8's - it was Douglas Luiz drifting out to the left so that Bailey could stay narrow. 

It's very, very good news for Carney in terms of where his strengths lie, it's probably bad news for JPB who is more of a traditional winger, but it gives Carney a perfect opportunity to show what he can do.