The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[Sam-AVFC]

32 minutes ago, MCU said:

I’m still waiting for my apology by the way, no need for your stinking insults last night. 

Didn’t see you after someone laid out your charming opinion on people who are suicidal due to leaving benefits.

Until you retract that it’s a bit of a stretch to take the high ground on anything. People did go in on you too hard imo but being so smug while making such callous statements tends to ruffle feathers.

[OutByEaster?]

5 minutes ago, Brumerican said:

Yup. Another huge win for wax face.

And a massive boost for the orange ape across the water.

 

[OutByEaster?]

It's notable that it seems that the people here who favoured Boris seem to be holding out as their bright hope for the future that he's about to change - that he'll become softer, more centrist, embrace the new voters he's picked up - I'm a little concerned that the people that actually like him are hanging their hat on the idea that he'll be different. 

 

[foreveryoung]

Pages an pages of debate. It's done an thats it. Or shall we run the vote again either now or in a couple of months when we know what's going on just to be sure?

[DCJonah]

Just now, OutByEaster? said:

It's notable that it seems that the people here who favoured Boris seem to be holding out as their bright hope for the future that he's about to change - that he'll become softer, more centrist, embrace the new voters he's picked up - I'm a little concerned that the people that actually like him are hanging their hat on the idea that he'll be different. 

 

Same thing happened when Trump won. Lots said it won't be as bad as people thought and once he'd won his whole spiel would calm down. 

I'd argue it's been much worse than people thought and I dread to think what will happen if he is reelected next year. 

I hope you're right about Boris. It's the only way the next 5 years are going to be good. 

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, cyrusr said:

Labour will probably be kicking themselves for not forcing the 2nd referendum back in October instead of a GE. All they needed to do is for Corbyn to step aside for the benefit of the country. He and/or labour refused. 

A lot of interesting thoughts in your post, but this isn't right. There wasn't a majority for a second referendum, even with Corbyn stepping aside. This had been tested on more than one occasion during the year. 

There was, however, a huge tactical mistake in September. Ultimately it caused the result last night. The mistake was not taking an election the first time Johnson offered it. At that point he hadn't secured a deal - it wasn't even on the horizon - and the Tories would have gone into the election with the real doubt for the electorate over whether they would prefer No Deal or not. The opposition parties held firm on not giving Johnson his referendum, even after the Benn Act passed, because they didn't believe he'd follow the law. That was a mistake, and they should have trusted the Benn Act. A lot of people on this forum, including me, agreed with the position at the time, and in hindsight it was a terrible mistake. 

[lapal_fan]

2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Pages an pages of debate. It's done an thats it. Or shall we run the vote again either now or in a couple of months when we know what's going on just to be sure?

GRACE AND DECORUM PEOPLE!

[a m ole]

1 hour ago, meregreen said:

Don’t be old, don’t be sick, don’t be unemployed or in a low paid job..........the next 5 years will be awful.

won’t happen to me mate, none of em

[Awol]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

The Tory propaganda machine played a blinder in smearing Corbyn. They got to the white van man lot with "Corbyn supports terrorists" and they got to the middle class Guardian readers with "Corbyn is antisemitic". All they had to do then was bang on about getting Brexit done. Depressingly simple, really. 

If that turns out to be the analysis adopted by Labour then there’s no hope for them recovering.

It won’t be, for exactly that reason. 

[HanoiVillan]

6 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Pages an pages of debate. It's done an thats it. Or shall we run the vote again either now or in a couple of months when we know what's going on just to be sure?

There are lots of other threads, on lots of other topics, that you're free to take a look at

[a m ole]

Just now, HanoiVillan said:

There are lots of other threads, on lots of other topics, that you're free to take a look at

END OF.

[Davkaus]

8 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

There are lots of other threads, on lots of other topics, that you're free to take a look at

"Pages and pages of ratings and post-match discussion. It's done. We're not going to play the match again so why keep talking about it".

"The TV show is over, why are you talking about it?!"

"You already ate the food shut up!!"

[cyrusr]

9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

A lot of interesting thoughts in your post, but this isn't right. There wasn't a majority for a second referendum, even with Corbyn stepping aside. This had been tested on more than one occasion during the year. 

There was, however, a huge tactical mistake in September. Ultimately it caused the result last night. The mistake was not taking an election the first time Johnson offered it. At that point he hadn't secured a deal - it wasn't even on the horizon - and the Tories would have gone into the election with the real doubt for the electorate over whether they would prefer No Deal or not. The opposition parties held firm on not giving Johnson his referendum, even after the Benn Act passed, because they didn't believe he'd follow the law. That was a mistake, and they should have trusted the Benn Act. A lot of people on this forum, including me, agreed with the position at the time, and in hindsight it was a terrible mistake. 

There wasn’t back in March, but it was the closest with the customs union option as well when they did the series of indicative votes (think it was around 10 or so votes in it). Given the shift in the HOC make up in September, you could see that there was probable scope. There were discussions of the government of national unity, but again because of Corbyn, this didn’t happen. 

I think you are right though, if they forced it when it was “no deal” he would have been far more successful. 

[NurembergVillan]

21 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Pages an pages of debate. It's done an thats it. Or shall we run the vote again either now or in a couple of months when we know what's going on just to be sure?

I'm fairly confident this won't be the last ever General Election.

[tinker]

22 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Pages an pages of debate. It's done an thats it. Or shall we run the vote again either now or in a couple of months when we know what's going on just to be sure?

Give it 5 years and we will know what's gone on .........or what the media wants us to think has gone on. 

Scotland and Ireland are looking messy , just hope it doesn't boil over into "troubles" . Boris has to set a timetable for them to have another referendum on independence , the first sign of any type of direct protest could lead to years of violence , nip it in the bud and let them have their say o ar date when they can (after Brexit is sorted )

Edited December 13, 2019 by tinker

[tonyh29]

56 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

The Tory propaganda machine played a blinder in smearing Corbyn. They got to the white van man lot with "Corbyn supports terrorists" and they got to the middle class Guardian readers with "Corbyn is antisemitic". All they had to do then was bang on about getting Brexit done. Depressingly simple, really. 

The media line is a little too simplistic and an easy out for those surveying the fall out .

Corbyn smeared Corbyn , it didn't need the media  ... its true , the art of  basic fact checking appears to have died , but then read through our boltics threads and the glee with which ABT posters shared any little snippet of Anti Tory "propaganda" whilst crying foul at other platforms sharing anti labour "propaganda"  ..so much information overload  , is it any wonder genuine information gets lost along the way , but that art form wasn't invented by the Tory party , they just got better at it and beat Labour this time out  

 

But , you also  kind of have to ask , did  the media also get to his own party as many of them didn't want him as PM anymore than the rest of the population  .. Ruth Smee was particularly damming of him in her defeat yesterday  I somehow doubt she was got at by the Guardian ... On the plus side , it seems there has never been a  better time to be Jewish in the UK  , who knew the Uk population felt such love towards them

 

 

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, MCU said:

I’m still waiting for my apology by the way, no need for your stinking insults last night. 

 

[snowychap]

3 hours ago, hippo said:

Fixed Term parliament act  - and redrawing election boundaries will shoot up on Johnsons to do list this morning. - the 40 hospitals - perhaps not so much 

Yep.

Also reform of judicial review, 'sorting out' of the civil service, &c.

[chrisp65]

6 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

The media line is a little too simplistic and an easy out for those surveying the fall out .

Corbyn smeared Corbyn , it didn't need the media  ... its true , the art of  basic fact checking appears to have died , but then read through our boltics threads and the glee with which ABT posters shared any little snippet of Anti Tory "propaganda" whilst crying foul at other platforms sharing anti labour "propaganda"  ..so much information overload  , is it any wonder genuine information gets lost along the way , but that art form wasn't invented by the Tory party , they just got better at it and beat Labour this time out  

But , you also  kind of have to ask , did  the media also get to his own party as many of them didn't want him as PM anymore than the rest of the population  .. Ruth Smee was particularly damming of him in her defeat yesterday  I somehow doubt she was got at by the Guardian ... On the plus side , it seems there has never been a  better time to be Jewish in the UK  , who knew the Uk population felt such love towards them

Yeah, I’ve been quite scathing of the BBC and in particular Laura K.

But I’ve been careful not to hint that it was them wot won it.

It was a mix of all sorts. All sorts of local issues and national issues and Corbyn. I think maybe, for all the analysis people looked at Corbyn and Abbott and nationalising everything, then they looked at Johnson and Mogg and Grenfell and the homeless, and they made their choice.

I’ve been left with nothing but the moral high ground and I shall be selectively pissing from here for the next 5 years.

 

[snowychap]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

I'd like to think the fact that they have taken many traditionally staunch Labour seats that the desire to hold onto them will help ensure they do look after public services and help those with the least amongst us.

What??

You appear to have taken wishful thinking to a whole new level, Mark.