Wesley Moraes

[romavillan]

4 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

As far as I can recall wesley has only taken 2 shots from outside the box. And neither one have been from past the D. He definitely needs to put more power in it which I believe he can do it is just they haven't been great positions in the first place so he hasn't been able to get a proper swing at it.

My main problem is mcginn is taking to many 30 or 40 yard shots which are straight at the keeper. The only player on our team I would be OK with taking 30 yard shots  regurlary is el ghazi. As to me he is the only player we have who could score 3/10 times or force a parry back into the box.

I think the reason wes looks like he isn't doing much is because he rarely gets the ball to feet and our long balls end up about 20 yards away from him so he can't get into or fight for a good position. I'm not anticipating Taylor to find him with a 60 yard pass but I'm expecting mings, Engels and Heaton to at least give wesley a chance when they hit it long. 

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 hour ago, MotoMkali said:

As far as I can recall wesley has only taken 2 shots from outside the box. And neither one have been from past the D. 

I can recall one really shit one now, but whether that was Burnley or arsenal I'm not sure of. His decision making is rather poor though. 

But more importantly, what's the D? It surely can't be what I am thinking of. 

[mottaloo]

Probably been said before but i get the feeling that dropping wesley in favour of Davies or whoever won't give him the kick up the bum intended, making him more determined to knuckle down....but more likely he'll just sulk on the bench.

I could be wrong. 

[MotoMkali]

4 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I can recall one really shit one now, but whether that was Burnley or arsenal I'm not sure of. His decision making is rather poor though. 

But more importantly, what's the D? It surely can't be what I am thinking of. 

The 'D' on the edge of the 18 yard box. 

[MotoMkali]

5 hours ago, romavillan said:

 

When you take about 50 shots a season from there you are bound to score some. Mcginn can do it but often he is shooting from really far out when we would be better off with or 2 more passes to work the ball closer to the 18 yard box. 

[mikeyp102]

5 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I hope he comes back stronger and I don't wanna hammer a young lad with negative feedback. But one thing I will never understand about some players, like Wesley, is that they obviously have a very poor shot, yet they insist on trying shots from 30 yards. 

Well I think he’s only got a couple of shots, but yes they haven't been great. But look at the penalty he scored at Walsall, the power and technique he hit that with were great, so obviously has some shooting technique 

[Thug]

On 01/10/2019 at 16:11, KentVillan said:

Disagree. His problem isn't his work rate, it's his street smarts. He's naive and petulant. He doesn't know when to go down, when to be aggressive... he lets his personal game situation get on top of him, especially if he feels the ref isn't on his side.

But lots of decent players start out like that. No doubt he'll always be a bit of a difficult character, but I think he'll grow out of the worst of it and learn to use his physical attributes to really influence games.

He's scored 2 goals in 7 Premier League games, and Davis has 2 career goals at any level. It would be madness to start Davis unless he starts really influencing games off the bench. Fine, the modern target man role doesn't require a 20+ goalscorer, but they still need to reach double figures. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see Davis doing that at Premier League level.

Working hard isn't all about running around closing people down, it's about doing the job you're given.  

When he's not up for it, he just throws himself to the ground rather than deal with the physicality.  

TRY to hold it up, TRY to win a header, TRY to hold the defender off.

There's none of that.

The only thing he's "trying" to do is win a freekick - and he's pretty crap at it.

 

I want him to do well.  He's got the raw attributes to do it.  He's already done it (one game out of 7)

But I can't stand this kind of petulance from any player -  It's horrible to watch someone in a villa shirt do it.

 

[villan-scott]

I saw an interesting comparison on Twitter to Joelinton and Haller, with both of them costing north of £40m. Neither of those are pulling up any trees. 

Wesley has been hit and miss, but he’s a young striker new to a country. He’s done well in patches. We need to back him. 

He certainly isn’t half the player of Joelinton or Haller, so we probably have got a good deal in comparison! 

[sne]

Think Haller is a clearly superior player to Wesley and even thou this early into the season their goals and assist (3 goals 1 assist in 6 for Haller, 2 goals in 7 for Wesley) are not too dissimilar I think their overall play and contribution differ a lot.

Only seen West Ham twice this season so not expert opinion but going by the stats you can find on Whoscored one big difference is the aerials won where Haller has 7,2/game while our Wesley has 1,6/game.

Haller also takes more shots while Wesley has a marginally better passing % although he attempts less than half as many passes as Haller does.

Looking at pretty much all stats it's clear just how much more involved Haller is and it shows in their overall rating where Haller clocks in on a very good 7,62 while Wesley has an OK 6,71.

Early days yet

Edit: Haller is currently ranked 9th among all PL-players on Whoscored

McGinn is 10th 

Edited October 3, 2019 by sne

[tomav84]

3 hours ago, villan-scott said:

I saw an interesting comparison on Twitter to Joelinton and Haller, with both of them costing north of £40m. Neither of those are pulling up any trees. 

Wesley has been hit and miss, but he’s a young striker new to a country. He’s done well in patches. We need to back him. 

He certainly isn’t half the player of Joelinton or Haller, so we probably have got a good deal in comparison! 

joelinton is playing under bruce to be fair

[romavillan]

17 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

When you take about 50 shots a season from there you are bound to score some. Mcginn can do it but often he is shooting from really far out when we would be better off with or 2 more passes to work the ball closer to the 18 yard box. 

Yeah was a bit tongue in cheek but he's scored some belters, I'd be inclined to let him keep hitting them and only give the odd bollocking if there was clearly better options to score.

 

 

3 hours ago, sne said:

Edit: Haller is currently ranked 9th among all PL-players on Whoscored

McGinn is 10th

Whoscored want tp buck their ideas up, McGinn is second to none

Not against Wesley starting against Norwich but the team needs to find him more often and he needs to be getting more touches and get in the game more.

[spineynorman]

For me there are four possible reasons to keep him in the team at Norwich:-

• He is playing well individually ? No
• He is adding to the team's play ? No, in fact the reverse is true, I think
• It will improve his confidence and long term improvement ? Maybe but only if he gets lucky I suspect
• It will ruin him to drop him ? Maybe but if he is dropped and sulks, as has been suggested as a possibility, he probably isn't what we want.

It could be the last two are why he will be retained but it generally for me doesn't work.  It could be that he is dropped and, like many before him, "becomes" a better player out of the team in the fans' eyes and when he gets sub or full appearances going forwards, both he and the fans are more "up for it / him" and it works better. We can maybe think of examples from the past where that has happened ?

[sne]

17 minutes ago, spineynorman said:

For me there are four possible reasons to keep him in the team at Norwich:-

• He is playing well individually ? No
• He is adding to the team's play ? No, in fact the reverse is true, I think
• It will improve his confidence and long term improvement ? Maybe but only if he gets lucky I suspect
• It will ruin him to drop him ? Maybe but if he is dropped and sulks, as has been suggested as a possibility, he probably isn't what we want.

It could be the last two are why he will be retained but it generally for me doesn't work.  It could be that he is dropped and, like many before him, "becomes" a better player out of the team in the fans' eyes and when he gets sub or full appearances going forwards, both he and the fans are more "up for it / him" and it works better. We can maybe think of examples from the past where that has happened ?

Could also add that our current options might not currently be better

• Kodjia has been injured and is lacking match fitness
• Davis has a 4 goals in 50 appearances record for the senior team
• we are desperate for our club record signing to come good.
• Norwich has an iffy defensive record and an injury crisis that Wesley might be deemed able to exploit.

Fwiw I'd also be interested to see what Davis might do if given a start.

Edited October 3, 2019 by sne

[tomav84]

4 minutes ago, sne said:

Could also add that our current options might not currently better

• Kodjia has been injured and is lacking match fitness
• Davis has a 4 goals in 50 appearances record for the senior team
• we are desperate for our club record signing to come good.
• Norwich has an iffy defensive record and an injury crisis that Wesley might be deemed able to exploit.

Fwiw I'd also be interested to see what Davis might do if given a start.

Smith has confirmed Kodjia not ready for saturday.

I think considering how dodge norwich's defence is, i probably would keep wesley

[KentVillan]

Norwich have a similar high press and soft defence to Everton, which I think plays into Wesley's hands. I think this could be a game where we see Wesley step up and take more responsibility.

[AV82]

Admittedly I do forget this guy is only 22 years old. Price tag aside he's a young guy with a lot to learn.

[Risso]

To be honest, we should never have been left in the position where this guy is our main/only option up front.  Absolute madness from the recruitment team.

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 hour ago, AV82 said:

Admittedly I do forget this guy is only 22 years old. Price tag aside he's a young guy with a lot to learn.

He is. I don't care about the money at all, but he has been largely poor so far and that I do care about. Ultimately age and fee's are irrelevant as long as you perform. 

If he simply isn't ready then a) we have a problem b) he needs to be rotated. Age doesn't come into it. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 hours ago, Risso said:

To be honest, we should never have been left in the position where this guy is our main/only option up front.  Absolute madness from the recruitment team.

To be fair the rebuild of the team and squad was so big there was always a chance an area of the  pitch could end up being light.  

To put things in to perspective out of the team that started against Burnley only 3 of them were our players in the play off final. 

I have faith we’ll sign a decent striker in January. 

[briny_ear]

15 hours ago, AV82 said:

Admittedly I do forget this guy is only 22 years old. Price tag aside he's a young guy with a lot to learn.

I don’t see it so much as him having a lot to learn.

First off, he has a lot to ”unlearn”, in particular his tendency to fall over at the slightest provocation. It looks like this is a highly developed bad habit.

So it’s not like he’s a young kid who is a bit uncertain and needs help. He needs to have his bad habits trained out of him.

Edited October 4, 2019 by briny_ear