Dean Smith

[villa4europe]

7 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Not a chance mate! A lot of those are level with us or less.  The amount of pull the PL has and money.

I hate the "big club" stuff, it's incredibly flawrd

That said I think you can make an argument that the PL inflates the size of all European clubs but take that away and villa are way down the pecking order 

At the same time you are joking if you think the PL is the epicentre of European football because its not, you ask a French, or German, or Italian football fan to name the biggest 20 to 30 clubs in europe and you won't find one that says Aston Villa, there are teams in bundesliga 2 that would be considered bigger than villa 

Near deluded to think we're anywhere near that big, incredibly blinkered even with the money 

Edited November 14, 2021 by villa4europe

[Mark Albrighton]

12 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

it's incredibly flawrd

[Stevo985]

16 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Maybe but financially a lot of people under value the size and money in the PL compared to other European leagues and while some of those others have big historic names they struggle financially with the teams in the PL.  it’s just the way it is.

That doesn't make them smaller jobs or smaller clubs.

[nick76]

10 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

That said I think you can make an argument that the PL inflates the size of all European clubs but take that away and villa are way down the pecking order 

But you can’t take it away because it’s their.  It’s flawed to say if you take it away because it’s there

11 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

At the same time you are joking if you think the PL is the epicentre of European football because its not, you ask a French, or German, or Italian football fan to name the biggest 20 to 30 clubs in europe and you won't find one that says Aston Villa, there are teams in bundesliga 2 that would be considered bigger than villa 

Great for them but the PL is the financial epicentre.  You have some elite teams in some of other bigger leagues that are huge and I never said Villa compared to them or the ones in our league.  I said outside of them the rest are our level or lower which is true.

Couldnt care less what some french, German or Italian fan said it’s not about perceived size it’s about financial pull.  PL teams, even outside the top 4 have more financial clout than their equivalents in the other leagues.  So my point still stands.

 

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

That doesn't make them smaller jobs or smaller clubs.

Ok maybe my word was wrong, maybe “financial pull” rather “big” should be the word(s)

[Tommo_b]

48 minutes ago, Tayls said:

Way off. 

England: Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal, Leicester, West Ham, Newcastle (unfortunately, now). 

France: PSG, Lyon, Marseille

Germany: Bayern Munich, Dortmund, RB Leipzig

Netherlands: Ajax

Spain: Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, Sevilla,

Portugal: Porto, Benfica

Italy: Juventus, Inter Milan, AC Milan, Napoli, Roma, Atalanta 

Thats 28 there for starters that I can think off at the top of my head. I don’t think we are that big of a pull, yet! 

Gotta disagree with Leicester, West Ham and Newcastle! Everton should be in that list.

[Tayls]

12 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Gotta disagree with Leicester, West Ham and Newcastle! Everton should be in that list.

Everton is one that I think we are on par with… 

[gwi1890]

1 hour ago, Tayls said:

Way off. 

England: Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal, Leicester, West Ham, Newcastle (unfortunately, now). 

France: PSG, Lyon, Marseille

Germany: Bayern Munich, Dortmund, RB Leipzig

Netherlands: Ajax

Spain: Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, Sevilla,

Portugal: Porto, Benfica

Italy: Juventus, Inter Milan, AC Milan, Napoli, Roma, Atalanta 

Thats 28 there for starters that I can think off at the top of my head. I don’t think we are that big of a pull, yet! 

Not even half your list have won a european cup

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Cliffy Biro said:

On the subject of Smith though, dont really know what to expect from him at Norwich, he had a lot of money and did a good job overall here but theres definite question marks over some big chunks of his time here. Really hope Gerrard isnt a disaster and we dont swap places with Norwich leaving Smith looking smug  

Imagine if both Brentford and Norwich finished above us?

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Jas10 said:

Did anyone else get the impression that Dean was a little too laid back or accepting of our situation? Who knows what went on behind the scenes but I didn’t feel a sense of urgency or determination to get the players fit and on form. Not an easy situation, I know. And of course he tried to do what he could… But he just came across as easy going and continually said we’ll get better or we’ll finish in the top 10… but where were the signs of that? Maybe he wasn’t entirely happy? I don’t know, I guess it’s just speculation.

I’m just wondering and hoping that if Gerrard and co. bring a fresh and more disciplined approach, raising standards for the players etc. not taking any shit, that it could work out well for us… many of the players seemed mopey or clueless at times… wasn’t happy with soem of the tantrums… Maybe we needed that refresher but it’ll be a while before I shake the sadness of Dean’s departure and the shattering of the dreams of many of his supporters. Would’ve loved to see him lead us into Europe eventually…

Time to step up to the plate SG, no pressure

Re your first paragraph, I think that's just his personality. Is Deano the Tyrone Ming's of management  .

Outstanding in patches but has clangers and rough patches every now and then through over confidence and nonchalance.

[Jas10]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Re your first paragraph, I think that's just his personality. Is Deano the Tyrone Ming's of management  .

Outstanding in patches but has clangers and rough patches every now and then through over confidence and nonchalance.

Na & I’ll always love the guy

I’m not criticising him, just wondering what was going on & why we struggled so badly.

I don’t really think he dropped any clangers or was nonchalant, I think a lot worked against him tbh. Victim of circumstance I would say…

I can’t really see how/why SG is going to be a better (or even equal) manager to Dean but I want to be proved wrong and am hoping for the best.

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Maybe but financially a lot of people under value the size and money in the PL compared to other European leagues and while some of those others have big historic names they struggle financially with the teams in the PL.  it’s just the way it is.

Maybe but Newcastle are in a better financial state than Barcelona or Valencia but I imagine if a manager was offered to work in them teams then they would go before Newcastle, not to mention imagine telling your family that you chose to live in Newcastle over Valencia

[nick76]

16 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Maybe but Newcastle are in a better financial state than Barcelona or Valencia but I imagine if a manager was offered to work in them teams then they would go before Newcastle, not to mention imagine telling your family that you chose to live in Newcastle over Valencia

True but if Newcastle do use some of that financial muscle over the next five years I bet some of those reasons will become less of a problem weather and beach views don’t seem to be a problem for Manchester or Liverpool based players when money is shown and you’re closer to the top end.

[TomC]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Imagine if both Brentford and Norwich finished above us?

If Norwich stay up and we go down, expect Purslow to lose his job.

Having said that, we have more talent than Norwich. And while I think that we gave up on Deano too soon, he isn't going to become a super-manager overnight. He still has flaws and has learning to do. Therefore, Gerrard will have to be pretty bad for it to happen.

As for Deano...I'm happy for him that he landed somewhere, but I'm not sure that it was the right career choice for him because a better opportunity would have come soon enough.

Edited November 14, 2021 by TomC
Fixed grammar

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Jas10 said:

Na & I’ll always love the guy

I’m not criticising him, just wondering what was going on & why we struggled so badly.

I don’t really think he dropped any clangers or was nonchalant, I think a lot worked against him tbh. Victim of circumstance I would say…

I can’t really see how/why SG is going to be a better (or even equal) manager to Dean but I want to be proved wrong and am hoping for the best.

Jokes aside.

What if subconsciously, he felt like he was fighting a losing battle?

Everything from Jack leaving, to pre season turmoil, to surprise coach departures and additions etc 

What if he never actually cosgined alot of these things, and it didn't sit right with him?

Obviously he will know better than us, but he migjt have seen the signs that they were planning to replace him anyway.

Will be interesting to see if the likes of ROK join up with him at Norwich, that might tell us something.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

21 minutes ago, hippo said:

Unless he is a complete idiot he won't introduce high intensity training mid season. 

Rest is a very important part of fitness. Overload on top of overload will just cause fatigue and injuries.

Were you not saying just a couple of weeks ago how Smith should never have taken Luiz off vs Wolves because he looked fine to you? 

[Condimentalist]

19 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

There are lots of references to our pre season and how it is a significant contributing factor to Dean's results. What was so wrong with our preseason. We had our game against Forest cancelled and then the game against Sevilla was cancelled but we rescheduled and played Salernitana the following day. So is it the fact that we had a friendly game against Championship side Forest cancelled on July 28th the cause of our slump? 

Hmm, I don't know, how about:

Two cancelled fixtures and none against good opposition due to Covid

Multiple key players unable to participate due to injury and international duty

The best player being sold a week before the season

Key signings being made late, being unfit and having zero time to play together 

Two key members of the coaching staff leaving during the pre season.

It was a mess. I said before the season started that we might be in the bottom half for a while and not to shit ourselves if we are. Sadly Purslow was in the supermarket aisles raiding the bogroll. 

Gerrard has my full support as our new manager, but Dean was hard done by and deserved more time given the extenuating circumstances.

 

 

 

 

[Zatman]

36 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

There are lots of references to our pre season and how it is a significant contributing factor to Dean's results. What was so wrong with our preseason. We had our game against Forest cancelled and then the game against Sevilla was cancelled but we rescheduled and played Salernitana the following day. So is it the fact that we had a friendly game against Championship side Forest cancelled on July 28th the cause of our slump? 

Yes as we played a lot less games than other Premier League teams. Watford had 9 pre season friendlies and we played 5 with one arranged very last minute.  We also had a number of injuries and players away on international duty so started later than some other teams

[DaveAV1]

5 minutes ago, Condimentalist said:

Hmm, I don't know, how about:

Two cancelled fixtures and none against good opposition due to Covid

Multiple key players unable to participate due to injury and international duty

The best player being sold a week before the season

Key signings being made late, being unfit and having zero time to play together 

Two key members of the coaching staff leaving during the pre season.

It was a mess. I said before the season started that we might be in the bottom half for a while and not to shit ourselves if we are. Sadly Purslow was in the supermarket aisles raiding the bogroll. 

Gerrard has my full support as our new manager, but Dean was hard done by and deserved more time given the extenuating circumstances.

 

 

 

 

There’s no denying that all of those things weren’t helpful at all to us and therefore Dean. In that respect he was unfortunate, but people have generally recognised that whilst the last 5 games may have been the final straw, we haven’t played consistently well since January. I think it was 18 loses over 35 games. He might have turned it around, but we have owners with ambitions to make continuous progress and there wasn’t really a great deal of evidence of that over the last 10 months. 

I agree it was a mess, with coaches leaving etc but rather than considering these factors as a reason to give more time, perhaps the hierarchy thought we needed a reset and start again to some extent. Which is exactly what has happened. 

[hippo]

35 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Were you not saying just a couple of weeks ago how Smith should never have taken Luiz off vs Wolves because he looked fine to you? 

I meant rest after an high intensity training session.

I'm sure you won't believe me - but football matches themselves aren't high intensity.