imavillan Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mazrim said: I think I speak for all of us when I say that until such time as this club can supply beach towels, we're on a road to nowhere. Shed loads of beach towels on eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 20, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: There is old phrase I find quite apt sometimes - git gud. Mitch Clark for some reason last season expected to walk into our first team. He was loaned out to Port Vale, he is still at Port Vale. Some of these kids are delusional and expect it all on a plate. 10 minutes ago, New_Hope said: Not at all IMO. Some of these players become leeches of finances but have no drive to break into the first team. RHM, Andre Green et al are not going to make it here with us so clean the slate and use the resources elsewhere. Absolutely delusional views of man management on display here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Absolutely delusional views of man management on display here They’re not wrong though are they? We’re not a charity for mediocre footballers. I mean, how much have the likes of Suliman and RHM taken out of the club and what have they given back? We have had a track record of holding on to mediocre players for far too long only to eventually release them for zero fees, it’s the opposite of good business sense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Adam2003 said: That’s such a key point on the wage bill needing to be lower than established PL clubs. No wonder we had to look for some cheaper players from abroad. Signings like Trezeguet really come into perspective. He's already paid back his 10m with that semifinal goal, but overall hasn't exactly set the league ablaze. Then on the other hand we have players like Luiz, who cost just 15m but has a tremendous upside. In a couple of years I can see him becoming a star. It all hinges on us staying up, but we've done really well this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 35 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: They’re not wrong though are they? We’re not a charity for mediocre footballers. I mean, how much have the likes of Suliman and RHM taken out of the club and what have they given back? We have had a track record of holding on to mediocre players for far too long only to eventually release them for zero fees, it’s the opposite of good business sense. I don't doubt the commitment of the two players you've mentioned - I guess they've probably worked very hard to get this far but like a large number of young players, they aren't cut out for top level football, not many are. There will always be players who don't make it coming out of the academy but they aren't paid anywhere near enough to have any impact on the club financially. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Aged 20 you should definitely be getting sent out on loan for the first six months of the season. See how they get on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 20, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Aged 20 you should definitely be getting sent out on loan for the first six months of the season. See how they get on. Unless they are pushing for a starting spot after an amazing pre season then yep, no point them hanging around to not quite make the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 31 minutes ago, lexicon said: I don't doubt the commitment of the two players you've mentioned - I guess they've probably worked very hard to get this far but like a large number of young players, they aren't cut out for top level football, not many are. There will always be players who don't make it coming out of the academy but they aren't paid anywhere near enough to have any impact on the club financially. Players like Gary Gardner made millions out of this club. He should have been binned off 4 or 5 years before he actually was. IIRC it was Bruce who gave him a new deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 22 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: Players like Gary Gardner made millions out of this club. He should have been binned off 4 or 5 years before he actually was. IIRC it was Bruce who gave him a new deal I doubt he made much more than a million and that would have been over the course of several years. Even if it was a couple of mil, it's not big money for us whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 20, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: They’re not wrong though are they? We’re not a charity for mediocre footballers. I mean, how much have the likes of Suliman and RHM taken out of the club and what have they given back? We have had a track record of holding on to mediocre players for far too long only to eventually release them for zero fees, it’s the opposite of good business sense. But those footballers currently play for us. They clearly serve a purpose. We need them to play well to either support the first team, or earn moves elsewhere. We need to be trying to get the best out of them. Saying "well they're not good enough anyway" is hardly sending the right message is it? Every club has players that age that aren't in the first team. They don't just cast them off. Imagine a director at a normal company telling his staff they're all shit anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: But those footballers currently play for us. They clearly serve a purpose. We need them to play well to either support the first team, or earn moves elsewhere. We need to be trying to get the best out of them. Saying "well they're not good enough anyway" is hardly sending the right message is it? Every club has players that age that aren't in the first team. They don't just cast them off. Imagine a director at a normal company telling his staff they're all shit anyway It was probably just banter anyway! Lads Lads Lads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 29 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: But those footballers currently play for us. They clearly serve a purpose. We need them to play well to either support the first team, or earn moves elsewhere. We need to be trying to get the best out of them. Saying "well they're not good enough anyway" is hardly sending the right message is it? Every club has players that age that aren't in the first team. They don't just cast them off. Imagine a director at a normal company telling his staff they're all shit anyway They don't play for us though, how many U23s do we have currently playing U23 football? They are out playing professional football. I think it is a dig at the situation of recent years with the likes of Suliman, Lyden, Blackett Taylor, Gardner, Toner all being 21 years of agenever playing football regularly and coming back to the U23s for a run out. They are not good enough, ship them out. Which is what we are doing now, being ruthless. I don't think it is a dig at 21 year old lads currently out on loan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted February 20, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: I think it is a dig at the situation of recent years with the likes of Suliman, Lyden, Blackett Taylor, Gardner, Toner all being 21 years of agenever playing football regularly and coming back to the U23s for a run out. They are not good enough, ship them out. Which is what we are doing now, being ruthless. I'd forgotten about Toner. Apparently now playing non-league in Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 20, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: I don't think it is a dig at 21 year old lads currently out on loan. Of course it wasn't. But that's how it sounds. Which was entirely the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_Hope Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Absolutely delusional views of man management on display here You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear...no matter how nice and encouraging you are! Otherwise all players would end up as Premier League players wouldn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: But those footballers currently play for us. They clearly serve a purpose. We need them to play well to either support the first team, or earn moves elsewhere. We need to be trying to get the best out of them. Saying "well they're not good enough anyway" is hardly sending the right message is it? Every club has players that age that aren't in the first team. They don't just cast them off. Imagine a director at a normal company telling his staff they're all shit anyway It's not a normal company though is it, so pointless using that comparison. If you're not making it at 20/21 these days there's a good chance you won't make it at all, at least not at the highest level. Yes there are occasional anomalies, people often cite Harry Kane but the reason people often cite Harry Kane is because it's pretty difficult to think of other examples. I'm all for anything that helps Aston Villa be successful and if part of that is becoming more ruthless with identifying which young players will and won't make it, then I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 20, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, New_Hope said: You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear...no matter how nice and encouraging you are! Otherwise all players would end up as Premier League players wouldn't they? Missed the point there mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 20, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said: It's not a normal company though is it, so pointless using that comparison. If you're not making it at 20/21 these days there's a good chance you won't make it at all, at least not at the highest level. Yes there are occasional anomalies, people often cite Harry Kane but the reason people often cite Harry Kane is because it's pretty difficult to think of other examples. I'm all for anything that helps Aston Villa be successful and if part of that is becoming more ruthless with identifying which young players will and won't make it, then I'm all for it. So what you're saying is tell all the players at the club of that age that they're not good enough then. Perfect. Demotivate that entire section of players and lower their chances even more of ever making it or us ever getting a decent deal for selling them or loaning them out. Thank **** you're not in charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham t Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 47 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: So what you're saying is tell all the players at the club of that age that they're not good enough then. Perfect. Demotivate that entire section of players and lower their chances even more of ever making it or us ever getting a decent deal for selling them or loaning them out. Thank **** you're not in charge There is absolutely no point in keeping a 20 year old on the books if he isn't knocking on the 1st team door by that age. They will have had a professional contract for the last 4 years and all the coaching that goes with it. There is little or no further development to look forward to. Tough ,I know, but true. ATB VLD. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: So what you're saying is tell all the players at the club of that age that they're not good enough then. Perfect. Demotivate that entire section of players and lower their chances even more of ever making it or us ever getting a decent deal for selling them or loaning them out. Thank **** you're not in charge Okay cool, let’s just keep paying mediocre players to linger then, eating into budgets that could be spent elsewhere. Fair enough for the existing crop it’s not good news but we aren’t a charity, for the next crop coming through they’ll know the parameters. Its the problem with change, there’s always resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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