weedman Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, sne said: Ah OK. Their owners don't seem to be willing or able to do so thou as every figure I can find has us on similar or higher wage average compared to them. I think the wages thing is done as an average. FFP only allows your average wage to go up by a certain % each year. So we couldn't go out and suddenly offer 10 players 200k a week to come here like City did when they were taken over. Think he's saying regardless of money we can only raise the wage bill slowly over several years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, sne said: Mitch Clark not a fan of Purslow apparently. Purslow is right though, in my view - if you haven't broken into the 'Senior' team at all by 21/22/23, you ain't getting there with us. Drop down a league or two. 23's should be for the teenagers, and recently injured players looking to get some match fitness, and maybe 3rd choice goalkeepers. Will be interesting to see what we do with O'Hare now, as he is playing quite well, but maybe that is the level he needs to stay at for a little while longer... Who knows - glad I'm not the one making these types of decisions on peoples playing careers. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, weedman said: I think the wages thing is done as an average. FFP only allows your average wage to go up by a certain % each year. So we couldn't go out and suddenly offer 10 players 200k a week to come here like City did when they were taken over. Think he's saying regardless of money we can only raise the wage bill slowly over several years Yeah that seems like an obvious thing. No one except maybe Barcelona has 10 players on £200k/w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) It was a really interesting discussion - two of the main things I didnt know at all were: 1) The arrangement with Fanatics and Kappa and how the kit ordering system works between those two and how that compares with bringing it back in house. I know @NurembergVillan has explained bits and pieces before, but didnt quite realise the involvement we had (or didn't have as the case may be). 2) The FFP rules regarding players wages when promoted, how we can only have 1 years worth of Premier League and 2 years worth of Championship wages on our books. Really fascinating, and shows how hard it is to come up a division and compete. Clearly there were no issues with spending capital when we came up, but to align that with players wage demands and keeping it in check with FFP is really tough. Goes to show why we made the moves that we did in the summer and Jan. I have a new found respect for the 'Plan'. Great stuff. Edited February 20, 2020 by Tayls 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Tayls said: Purslow is right though, in my view - if you haven't broken into the 'Senior' team at all by 21/22/23, you ain't getting there with us. Drop down a league or two. 23's should be for the teenagers, and recently injured players looking to get some match fitness, and maybe 3rd choice goalkeepers. Will be interesting to see what we do with O'Hare now, as he is playing quite well, but maybe that is the level he needs to stay at for a little while longer... Who knows - glad I'm not the one making these types of decisions on peoples playing careers. Absolutely. Totally agree with Purslow. Been banging on about this for years the way players in their mid 20's has still been seen as talents without being able to made any impact for the senior team. And how poor we have been in producing players that can help the senior team and make the step up. FFS Ciaran Clark and Gardner was still "promising" when they were sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I imagine those with a negative (or reactionary) view, think that this means that we're immediately going to bin all of our players in the U23s that don't fit the age range that Purslow is mentioning, but that's not going to happen. CP said it's a plan that will take years to complete, so there may well still be young players (like O'Hare) that are older than the 16-18 range that could still have a future with Villa, we'll just need them to develop at other clubs on loan, or while being in and around the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) I agree with Purslow on this 100%. If you're 21-23 and playing in the U23s you're just holding back a potentially better younger player and need to leave to find your level. It's brutal but necessary, and sometimes it might backfire on us, but it's a policy I can get behind and will only lead to a better squad. It's the opposite of accepting mediocrity and I love it. Edited February 20, 2020 by Mazrim 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Rob182 said: I imagine those with a negative (or reactionary) view, think that this means that we're immediately going to bin all of our players in the U23s that don't fit the age range that Purslow is mentioning, but that's not going to happen. CP said it's a plan that will take years to complete, so there may well still be young players (like O'Hare) that are older than the 16-18 range that could still have a future with Villa, we'll just need them to develop at other clubs on loan, or while being in and around the first team. Yea, I don't think Purslow was saying that they are bad players - which is the path Mitchell Clark is taking this down, (primarily because the post he is responding to has re-worded what Purslow said to make it sound that way). But actually, if we have players that age still at the club, who are not getting into our 1st team, and just kicking about at Under 23 level, then that is wrong - they should be wanted by lower league clubs to play in their senior sides to give them proper playing experience. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, Tayls said: Yea, I don't think Purslow was saying that they are bad players - which is the path Mitchell Clark is taking this down, (primarily because the post he is responding to has re-worded what Purslow said to make it sound that way). But actually, if we have players that age still at the club, who are not getting into our 1st team, and just kicking about at Under 23 level, then that is wrong - they should be wanted by lower league clubs to play in their senior sides to give them proper playing experience. Exactly, those players should be loaned out to the Championship or abroad to get senior football. Being 22 and playing youth football is pointless, surely the players must feel so as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I think Jack Clarke is the only youth product in his twenties still playing for the U23s... In the past we've probably hung on to youngsters for too long who were never likely to make it with us, the likes of Lyden, Blackett-Taylor, McKirdy, Sulliman all of whom were playing for our U23s around the ages of 21 and 22 spring to mind, Lyden's 24 now but he only left the club last year. But obviously we're not going to write-off youth products that are in their twenties and doing well out on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 32 minutes ago, Mazrim said: I agree with Purslow on this 100%. If you're early 21-23 and playing in the U23s you're just holding back a potentially better younger player and need to leave to find you're level. It's brutal but necessary, and sometimes it might backfire on us, but it's a policy I can get behind and will only lead to a better squad. It's the opposite of accepting mediocrity and I love it. He's also right in saying that it's a failure of the system, because if we can't develop or integrate players that we think should be good enough into the first team then we're messing up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Purslow is a class act. The club would get a lot less stick from its own fans if they spent more time listening to what he has to say. FFP is designed in such a way that you simply cannot transform a club overnight, no matter how much cash you have. He’s doing all the right things, but it will take a whole “player cycle” (ie from youth to peak - so around 10 years) for it all to come to fruition. We can obviously achieve some big things within 10 years, but that’s how long it will take to turn the whole ship around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 12 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Purslow is a class act. The club would get a lot less stick from its own fans if they spent more time listening to what he has to say. FFP is designed in such a way that you simply cannot transform a club overnight, no matter how much cash you have. He’s doing all the right things, but it will take a whole “player cycle” (ie from youth to peak - so around 10 years) for it all to come to fruition. We can obviously achieve some big things within 10 years, but that’s how long it will take to turn the whole ship around. Since the halcyon days I've been waiting for almost 40 years so i suppose another 10 is neither here or there. The only problem i have with it is i hope i will still be around to see it !!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwdriver Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 23 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Purslow is a class act. he's class at answering the question ...........by spending 5 minutes blowing smoke up the hairy tush of the guy who asked the question and then finishing off by saying I'll get back to you on that one. the kappa question was master class................ question: I can't get towels for the beech for the kids. answer: I have no involvement......but I'll take your question away. "have a word" filler: drinking and dining with the owner of Krappa, promotion wembley play off final superb fans lead times other bullshit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, screwdriver said: he's class at answering the question ...........by spending 5 minutes blowing smoke up the hairy tush of the guy who asked the question and then finishing off by saying I'll get back to you on that one. the kappa question was master class................ question: I can't get towels for the beech for the kids. answer: I have no involvement......but I'll take your question away. "have a word" filler: drinking and dining with the owner of Krappa, promotion wembley play off final superb fans lead times other bullshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 20, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, rodders0223 said: Kid is a bellend, noted he is back playing at Port Vale this season. Says it all. He kind of has a point though to be fair. Don't get me wrong, I agree with Purslow and I think he's saying all the right stuff. But that is a bit of a kick in the teeth for those guys currently playing at that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I think I speak for all of us when I say that until such time as this club can supply beach towels, we're on a road to nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_Hope Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, sne said: Mitch Clark not a fan of Purslow apparently. Says the player rightfully released for not being up to the grade and playing in League 2. #sourgrapes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: He kind of has a point though to be fair. Don't get me wrong, I agree with Purslow and I think he's saying all the right stuff. But that is a bit of a kick in the teeth for those guys currently playing at that level. There is old phrase I find quite apt sometimes - git gud. Mitch Clark for some reason last season expected to walk into our first team. He was loaned out to Port Vale, he is still at Port Vale. Some of these kids are delusional and expect it all on a plate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_Hope Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: He kind of has a point though to be fair. Don't get me wrong, I agree with Purslow and I think he's saying all the right stuff. But that is a bit of a kick in the teeth for those guys currently playing at that level. Not at all IMO. Some of these players become leeches of finances but have no drive to break into the first team. RHM, Andre Green et al are not going to make it here with us so clean the slate and use the resources elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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