Steve Bruce

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said:

It is a great club mate but sometimes I think we need a reality check. 

Great Club......meaning steeped in History.

Look, despite the shite team, we are revered in most places.....everyone in football knows we are in a dark place reference our History.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said:

We have every right to be proud of this club. imo this club has massively underachieved for the last 100 years. Ok we had the early 80s but that was very short lived and yet again we never cracked on from there.

Well it was 1982 when we won the European cup and super cup.....I was watching arguably a better team in 1977( imo... well more exciting, not necessarily better).....so there was 5 years.

1920/30's were buying all the best players in the country.

under these managers we skirted with a bit of success.

• Ron Atkinson
• Graham Taylor
• Brian Little
• John Gregory

speaking up until recently the last 10 years I personally have had a wonderful time following the Villa.....and just remember some clubs will never win the European cup in most fans lifetime.

I for one, (being extremely selfish) have been very well served by AVFC

so I think 100 years is a bit harsh.

Edited January 15, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

I'm convinced Bruce is the man to sort us out. He has 4 promotions from this league with teams with less resources. Results have improved since he arrived, despite the last couple of league results. Performances aren't great but let Bruce have the time to bring in his own players to suit the way he wants to play. Granted, we're never going to be Barcelona under him, but he is effective at what he does. 

I can't believe people are seriously questioning his appointment. I'm putting most of it down to a knee jerk reaction from yesterdays game, which I agree, was awful. That being said, we won't find a better qualified manager to get us out of this division. He just needs a transfer window or two t get his personnel in. 

Once we are back in the Premier League, we can have the discussion about whether he is the man to take us to the next level. He probably isn't, but if he gets us up, he at least deserves a chance to prove himself. If it fails, then we get a replacement and he will have my gratitude for getting back to our rightful place.

 

 

Me too.

I would like to know who are all these other managers that are proving to be such a distraction.....that we missed out on.

and when we do get promotion, who are the men going to take over from our Journeyman manager.

He has taken over a Tsunami of a disaster of a football team has just brought in one loan player and played 15 games.....just lost his only goal scorer through no fault of his own.

come on guys.....calm your jets.

This time next week with a few signings, we  will all be rolling over waiting for our bellies to be tickled.

He will fix this.

 

 

[Jareth]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

This time next week with a few signings, we  will all be rolling over waiting for our bellies to be tickled.

I say we go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over...

[Rugeley Villa]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

Well it was 1982 when we won the European cup and super cup.....I was watching arguably a better team in 1977( imo... well more exciting, not necessarily better).....so there was 5 years.

1920/30's were buying all the best players in the country.

under these managers we skirted with a bit of success.

• Ron Atkinson
• Graham Taylor
• Brian Little
• John Gregory

speaking up until recently the last 10 years I personally have had a wonderful time following the Villa.....and just remember some clubs will never win the European cup in most fans lifetime.

I for one, (being extremely selfish) have been very well served by AVFC

so I think 100 years is a bit harsh.

Maybe a tad harsh but this club should of been more than it is now. 1930 we were officially the biggest club in the world and probably were the 30 years before it. It's all irrelevant and you do make some good points.

[jackbauer24]

Anyone who is really questioning Bruce at this juncture is living in a fantasy land. Results have been reasonable to good, he's only been in charge for a while and he's only brought in one player so far. There have been mistakes, but there always will be. Performances are poor to appalling but you need the right ingredients to make a cake.

What I think is really the issue is a number of fans have still to realise that we are in an absolute mess and the chances of us being promoted were always going to be slim even without the huge mistake of hiring RDM. Just because our name is Aston Villa doesn't mean we deserve anything.

Under RDM and his signings we were heading for successive relegations, I genuinely believe that. Now with Bruce, we've turned the ship but are very much standing still, treading water if you will. We are at least 5 or 6 players off a Championship Playoff team and arguably 9 or 10 off a team that would get automatic promotion.

Bruce has done everything I'd have hoped of him by this time. We're largely, in the main, more difficult to beat but still offer nothing in attack. Previously we were weak in both departments.  He's honest and has earmarked midfield quite clearly as the problem area. He's removed the calamity that is Elphick and decided Gollini was too weak. He's got little choice with midfield or attack at the moment so we can judge him more when he gets a chance to change personnel. 

But without a RB, another CB for back up, 3 or four midfielders in defensive and attacking roles and another striker this team were never going to threaten the playoff places. Chester has done better than I thought (POTS) but Jedinak and Elphick have been disasters and Gollini has already been shipped off. McCormack is struggling but still suspect that's due to no midfield, he's a poacher not a Kodjia type of striker.

The team needs ANOTHER overhaul, not another manager.

 

 

[dounavilla]

18 minutes ago, Jareth said:

I say we go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over...

[Tommo_b]

2 hours ago, gilbertoAVFC said:

People are seriously deluded if they think we have a worse squad than Brighton, Huddersfield, Wednesday on paper.

Apart from the midfield we have a very good team at this level, which Bruce cannot get to work. Jedinak got Palace promoted a few years ago, Gardner was a regular for a midtable Forest side and he is our worst midfielder, Westwood would be fine for most teams but our fans treat him like turd, Tshibola is fine. The rest of the team is fine, just we play long-ball with ball-playing players. Ayew is easily Prem standard but doesn't get played, McCormack (see: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10252403/top-football-league-players-revealed). If Bruce can't get it to work, it's down to him. Kodjia is a good player at this level, so are Chester, Amavi, Elphick (was regular for Prem side last season).

Why are people so hell-bent on defending Bruce?

You obviously know nothing about the Brighton squad then. Brighton squad a very good and they also have a great team spirit. 

[briny_ear]

2 hours ago, gilbertoAVFC said:

People are seriously deluded if they think we have a worse squad than Brighton, Huddersfield, Wednesday on paper.

Apart from the midfield we have a very good team at this level, which Bruce cannot get to work. Jedinak got Palace promoted a few years ago, Gardner was a regular for a midtable Forest side and he is our worst midfielder, Westwood would be fine for most teams but our fans treat him like turd, Tshibola is fine. The rest of the team is fine, just we play long-ball with ball-playing players. Ayew is easily Prem standard but doesn't get played, McCormack (see: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10252403/top-football-league-players-revealed). If Bruce can't get it to work, it's down to him. Kodjia is a good player at this level, so are Chester, Amavi, Elphick (was regular for Prem side last season).

Why are people so hell-bent on defending Bruce?

Maybe because he took over a failing squad that had managed only one win all season, plummeting to 19th, and immediately got them winning matches?.

Just a wild guess.

[mykeyb]

There is a big difference between asking questions of the manager after yesterday and saying he should be sacked and I am not sure I have seen anyone claim the later.

[HanoiVillan]

16 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

There is a big difference between asking questions of the manager after yesterday and saying he should be sacked and I am not sure I have seen anyone claim the later.

There have been about half a dozen on this thread in the last 24 hours. I don't know how to quote posts from multiple pages, but they're in here alright. 

[srsmithusa]

I have big questions about Steve Bruce's ability as a manager.

Gabby?

Nuff said.

[kurtsimonw]

11 hours ago, gilbertoAVFC said:

People are seriously deluded if they think we have a worse squad than Brighton, Huddersfield, Wednesday on paper.

Apart from the midfield we have a very good team at this level, which Bruce cannot get to work. Jedinak got Palace promoted a few years ago, Gardner was a regular for a midtable Forest side and he is our worst midfielder, Westwood would be fine for most teams but our fans treat him like turd, Tshibola is fine. The rest of the team is fine, just we play long-ball with ball-playing players. Ayew is easily Prem standard but doesn't get played, McCormack (see: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10252403/top-football-league-players-revealed). If Bruce can't get it to work, it's down to him. Kodjia is a good player at this level, so are Chester, Amavi, Elphick (was regular for Prem side last season).

Why are people so hell-bent on defending Bruce?

You're massively overrating our squad. Westwood and Tshibola are far from being 'fine'. Elphick was as big a reason as to why Bournemouth struggled - as soon as he was out of the side they stopped leaking goals for fun. Amavi's positioning and reading of the game are so poor I don't know how he's made it this far in to his career as a defender.

I think you're forgetting we were shit before Bruce, really shit. These are players who managed 1 win in 11 games. Bruce has overacheived with his playoff form since joining the club.

[markavfc40]

15 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Ah yes, Gestede....

That dynamic goal machine, full of pace and movement and nuanced passing...

How crazy were we to sell such a key figure in our attacking success so far this season...

As crazy as it sounds I’d have kept Gestede unless there was another short term option lined up.

I don’t rate him by the way but with Kodjia away he would have been another option other than no goal since God knows when Gabby and one goal in 15 games McCormack who also can’t play up top on his own. Other than that we have two 18 year olds without a start between them and one of those now out of the picture having refused a new contract.

On Saturday I was watching the game and those with me were saying why don’t Bruce change it and my reply was to what? What exactly could be changed? The only hope was that Grealsih could come on and do something. I at least think with someone like Gestede it offers the option to by pass our pretty much non existent anyway midfield. It offers the option to say get it wide to Adomah and Green and just get them to put it in the box. So that is two attacking options to go long up to a big man and get bodies around him and hope something drops or get it wide and cross it and hope he gets on the end of something. On Saturday I don’t know what the game plan to score was. We had no one in midfield who creates. We had an ex speed merchant up top who wasn’t finding space to get in behind and we had McCormack who you will only get the best out of by playing him off someone and having creative players behind him.

I don’t know what Bruce does before Kodjia gets back. The hope is he brings in one or two midfielders who can offer some drive and have the ability to create. Even before Kodjia left goals were hard to come by without him they have become as rare as rocking horse shit.

Edited January 16, 2017 by markavfc40

[Grasshopper]

hindsight I know

But

Under Bruce the only "performance to be really proud of" was v Brighton away.

we drew 1-1 away against one if the top 2 teams in the league or top 5 if you include Leeds, Reading & Derby (recent form).

Why was that?

simple

Jedi won nearly everything and Westwood/Gardner ran their balls off and spent most of their time operating in areas of the pitch where they couldnt contribute to conceeding a goal.

We basically outran them and the ball was more often than not, going in the general direction of their goal and not ours.

So what does that tell us?

1) Keep the ball away from our goal and we wont conceed

2) get the upper hand in MF

3) Despite these two factors we still cant score enough goals.

So what happens vice versa

1) our GK and defence conceed to easily (mistakes - build up of pressure leading to)

2) our MF not playing to its Max simply isnt good enough

3) Attack - not potent enough

So whats the solution?

Trade Owner? DoF? Manager? Coaching staff?

No - The players

The question is who?

Well thats clear to most. Is it really clear to Bruce & Round?

I'd rather point to "making choices" as our downfall so far this season. (meaning from the off)

DrT going for RDM = mistake

Not clearing EVERY piece of shit out, choosing to go with some.

Not spending enough (I was laughed at for suggesting we needed another 60-100mill)

Ok so Xia sacked RDM (far too late - v Boro ShefW & v Luton was enough seen for me)

Bruce in - good choice

Bruce's major failings have been

1) Hutton instead of Bacuna at RB (the lesser of 2 evils)

2) not working on 3@back Elphick Chester Baker giving Bacuna/Amavi as WB's less defensive responsiblities (with Jedi as DM Gardner & Tish would have been less exposed as a 5 across the middle (Bacuna Tish Jedi GG Amavi)

3) Exposing Westwood & Gardners limitations (see above set up)

4) The ill-use of McC

5) Gaby back involved

6) not playing good crossers L&R for Gestede (as a tactical alternative option)

The momentum that SB may have achieved through his initial results/unbeaten run whilst having an ever improving team performance, could gave been decisive for such pivitol games as v Leeds (both) and Norwich - which I believe knocked us back to square one - giving us 4pts v Leeds & 3pts v Norwich. would have lead to us nor losing against Cardiff & Wolves (1pt achieved when we could have 13pts - We'd then be 3pts ahead of 6th rather than 10pts behind)

Such simple fine lines when you F**** up instead of getting it right.

Anyway, I'm ok with a certain amount of mistakes if one learns by them. However, I think we missed the boat.

[Xela]

13 hours ago, gilbertoAVFC said:

Why are people so hell-bent on defending Bruce?

1. He has 4 promotions from this league, including last season

2. He is the most qualified manager for us in this situation IMO

3. There has been an upturn in results since he has been here based on points per game (ok, performances aren't great yet but give him a transfer window or two)

I think that covers it.

If Bruce can't fix us, then we might as well shut the club down! 

 

[villan_007]

13 hours ago, gilbertoAVFC said:

People are seriously deluded if they think we have a worse squad than Brighton, Huddersfield, Wednesday on paper.

Apart from the midfield we have a very good team at this level, which Bruce cannot get to work. Jedinak got Palace promoted a few years ago, Gardner was a regular for a midtable Forest side and he is our worst midfielder, Westwood would be fine for most teams but our fans treat him like turd, Tshibola is fine. The rest of the team is fine, just we play long-ball with ball-playing players. Ayew is easily Prem standard but doesn't get played, McCormack (see: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10252403/top-football-league-players-revealed). If Bruce can't get it to work, it's down to him. Kodjia is a good player at this level, so are Chester, Amavi, Elphick (was regular for Prem side last season).

Why are people so hell-bent on defending Bruce?

Why are some fans so hell bent on thinking the mess that is Aston Villa should be fixed and up and running weeks after every new manager comes in. Sigh.

[Xela]

5 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

I have big questions about Steve Bruce's ability as a manager.

Gabby?

Nuff said.

There isn't a great deal of other options at present. Gabby's run outs were all done to get him fit for when he was going to cover the players missing in AFCON

Ideally it would have been better to keep Gestede, but when a good offer comes in for a player who isn't in your plans, you take it as you may not get that offer again.

Hepburn-Murphy may have got a chance if he wasn't being so greedy. 

 

[pacbuddies]

Last season the club sent a message to the fans in January by not buying anyone and shafting the manager. That message was 'we have given up on this season and accepted relegation so we aren't going to spend money on the very slim chance of survival'. I do hope a similar message is not sent this season but unless we sign a few good players in key positions then it will look like the club has written off this season and accepted that AVFC will be playing fizzy pop football again in the 2017-2018 season.

[Grasshopper]

10 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

Last season the club sent a message to the fans in January by not buying anyone and shafting the manager. That message was 'we have given up on this season and accepted relegation so we aren't going to spend money on the very slim chance of survival'. I do hope a similar message is not sent this season but unless we sign a few good players in key positions then it will look like the club has written off this season and accepted that AVFC will be playing fizzy pop football again in the 2017-2018 season.

you could be right

whereas RL was sinster

DrT is new to this

Will he learn or give up?