briny_ear Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 17 hours ago, markavfc40 said: As crazy as it sounds I’d have kept Gestede unless there was another short term option lined up. I don’t rate him by the way but with Kodjia away he would have been another option other than no goal since God knows when Gabby and one goal in 15 games McCormack who also can’t play up top on his own. Other than that we have two 18 year olds without a start between them and one of those now out of the picture having refused a new contract. On Saturday I was watching the game and those with me were saying why don’t Bruce change it and my reply was to what? What exactly could be changed? The only hope was that Grealsih could come on and do something. I at least think with someone like Gestede it offers the option to by pass our pretty much non existent anyway midfield. It offers the option to say get it wide to Adomah and Green and just get them to put it in the box. So that is two attacking options to go long up to a big man and get bodies around him and hope something drops or get it wide and cross it and hope he gets on the end of something. On Saturday I don’t know what the game plan to score was. We had no one in midfield who creates. We had an ex speed merchant up top who wasn’t finding space to get in behind and we had McCormack who you will only get the best out of by playing him off someone and having creative players behind him. I don’t know what Bruce does before Kodjia gets back. The hope is he brings in one or two midfielders who can offer some drive and have the ability to create. Even before Kodjia left goals were hard to come by without him they have become as rare as rocking horse shit. If the press chatter is to be believed, Bruce is looking to strengthen the forward line as well, and selling Gestede may well have been key in these dealings, either for financial reasons or as part of a wider transfer strategy, or both. Maybe I'm totally wrong (usually am these days) but I don't think Bruce is just waiting for Kodjia to return to improve our attacking play. And let's face it, Gestede is slow, cumbersome and not a great goal scorer. I certainly wouldn't want to see him as our best prospect for revitalising our attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I want Bruce to get the players in that he wants and not because we're just putting numbers in, like he says. Then, if it all goes pear-shaped, he'll have nobody else to blame. I have always backed him since he came to the club, and winning games and improving results sure helped his cause but, I do wonder if he has a style of play. I guess we will only know when he gets all his own players in and has a squad he's happy with. However, based in performances since he's been here, I do wonder whether there is a style that he has in mind for us. We have to give him the benefit of the doubt because of the players he's inherited though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 At present He has players he is unhappy with and an unbalanced squad.They represent nothing of what he stands for. He has no idea of what his best team is, because from this assembly, no one has an idea either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 hours ago, TRO said: At present He has players he is unhappy with and an unbalanced squad.They represent nothing of what he stands for. He has no idea of what his best team is, because from this assembly, no one has an idea either. He better do by now! I'm not saying it's a side he's happy with, but he should certainly know his best eleven. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 We're in a dip and some of the football we've served up lately shouldn't even be called football. This saturday's game is a perfect example of that. I think, with all things considered, that Bruce has done a decent job so far so he's a good option for us to finally get some goddam consistency back into this club. I mean, we've signed a gazillion players and gone through an entire populace of managers over the past few years and look where that has taken us. Obviously it was a lot down to mr. Nourisher of Romantica, but we're in a different position now with that sucker of joy out of the picture. Let's stabilize for once. Le please... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, bobzy said: He better do by now! I'm not saying it's a side he's happy with, but he should certainly know his best eleven. Agree. I don't think he does though, and the lack of a settled system and side is hampering us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) I'm never convinced by the ' needs his own players' argument. For one, we have seen enough decent performances under Bruce to prove it can be done with who we have. And IMO a decent Manager comes up with a system to suit the players he has. ( As indeed Bruce has in over half his games). Furthermore I don't share the view that we have a pile of useless players. Again, results have shown they are by and large reasonable top half of the League players, just like most other sides. I think Bruce has made some selection errors recently, some errors in being over cautious, and, yes, we need a couple of decent midfielders. And a settled style and system, more positive than of late. But no I don't go with him needing a virtually brrand new first eleven. Edited January 17, 2017 by terrytini 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, bobzy said: He better do by now! I'm not saying it's a side he's happy with, but he should certainly know his best eleven. Do you, or anyone else for that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, TRO said: Do you, or anyone else for that matter? I know the team I would start with; but that will differ to many on here - I guess that highlights what you're saying in terms of maybe not having a universally accepted "best team"? Even so - the manager should know his version. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, terrytini said: I'm never convinced by the ' needs his own players' argument. For one, we have seen enough decent performances under Bruce to prove it can be done with who we have. And IMO a decent Manager comes up with a system to suit the players he has. ( As indeed Bruce has in over half his games). Furthermore I don't share the view that we have a pile of useless players. Again, results have shown they are by and large reasonable top half of the League players, just like most other sides. I think Bruce has made some selection errors recently, some errors in being over cautious, and, yes, we need a couple of decent midfielders. And a settled style and system, more positive than of late. But no I don't go with him needing a virtually brrand new first eleven. Well, If we all knew the answer we would be rich men, because I'm sure Tony X would pay us for such. However something is clearly wrong.....so far, We have changed Owners We have changed umpteen Managers, some with reputations of succeeding elsewhere We have changed no end of coaches We have changed Players We have spent money We have bought cheaply Nothing seems to work. I simply don't know what the answer is, but if I had to have a stab, I think we continually buy the wrong players.....and we can't do anything with them. The one thing left thats seems to be a problem that has not ( to my knowledge) that has not been fixed, is scouting. Are all the above no good? It is a game of make your choice right now as to where the problem lies.....but for sure, there is an answer.....The trick is finding it. We have seen some decent results under SB , but do the players just give him 2-3 games then just default back to type.....so from a consistency point of view, has no one to rely on , hence the constant changes. Ps The point we have arrived at in my mind, gives me no confidence who ever comes in, will fix it......something appears spookily wrong to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 37 minutes ago, terrytini said: Agree. I don't think he does though, and the lack of a settled system and side is hampering us. Terry, how can an imbalanced squad with players who are as consistent in their own play as the uk weather......be settled. If he or any other manager, settled on a permutation with this lot, he would be hung for not changing it. We have a bunch of souls where we could/and do, all change our minds on their capability on a match to match basis. Where does "settled" fit in with that criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, bobzy said: I know the team I would start with; but that will differ to many on here - I guess that highlights what you're saying in terms of maybe not having a universally accepted "best team"? Even so - the manager should know his version. That is precisely what I am saying. I know who I would start with too.....but hand on heart could not convincingly say that would be any better than your offering, irrespective who you choose....such is the glaring inconsistency of their play. I am perhaps a lot older than you......But I can remember,with many teams over the years that it would be feasible to walk in to the pub before the game send round a list of preferred team and bar one or two it would come back the same. such was the consistency of the players. I would hate to have this squad in its present form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted January 17, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2017 We won't be settled until we have a midfield worthy of the name. We can't be settled until such time. The fact that Bruce is still trying to find a system that both compensates for our shortcomings in the middle whilst not overly-hampering us in other areas is a reflection on what he inherited, not on him. Fact is we're trying to win games without an engine room, or at best an engine missing 2 cylinders. January is his first chance to fix it. The fact that most of our links have been to midfielders suggests he knows what's missing. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Without wishing to either repeat myself or draw us all into a circular argument my point is that there is more likelihood of inconsistency if selection and systems are also inconsistent. I don't think the fact that few if any ( other than Chester?) appear capable of consistently playing well should mean they are dropped and the system changed. Surely the WORSE the players the MORE the need to decide on a plan and the personnel and stick to it. As to our more general ' curse' or demise I don't see a mystery unless I try to come up with a 'catch all' explanation. In actual fact different elements of our woes have been caused by pretty clear events but different ones at different times. Imo there is no mystery. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, terrytini said: Without wishing to either repeat myself or draw us all into a circular argument my point is that there is more likelihood of inconsistency if selection and systems are also inconsistent. I don't think the fact that few if any ( other than Chester?) appear capable of consistently playing well should mean they are dropped and the system changed. Surely the WORSE the players the MORE the need to decide on a plan and the personnel and stick to it. As to our more general ' curse' or demise I don't see a mystery unless I try to come up with a 'catch all' explanation. In actual fact different elements of our woes have been caused by pretty clear events but different ones at different times. Imo there is no mystery. Terry, I think we fundamentally agree, however your point seems to aim at SB being the perpetrator as opposed to the victim. I think the paradox here lies with consistency.....The TEAM will never be consistent whilst the players individual games are inconsistent....in such circumstances it will take a brave man to run with it, and allow the players the time to find their consistency themselves, if in fact those inconsistencies equal losing valuable points. I would wager, that SB wants to run with a settled side, but is searching for performances that will give him points to build on. If you cast your mind back to managers who have done precisely what you allude to they were criticised for not changing it, when were losing .....It is developing in to a bit of a catch 22 PS I don't see what more he can do, with what he has got. Edited January 17, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 hours ago, TRO said: Well, If we all knew the answer we would be rich men, because I'm sure Tony X would pay us for such. However something is clearly wrong.....so far, We have changed Owners We have changed umpteen Managers, some with reputations of succeeding elsewhere We have changed no end of coaches We have changed Players We have spent money We have bought cheaply Nothing seems to work. I simply don't know what the answer is, but if I had to have a stab, I think we continually buy the wrong players.....and we can't do anything with them. The one thing left thats seems to be a problem that has not ( to my knowledge) that has not been fixed, is scouting. Are all the above no good? It is a game of make your choice right now as to where the problem lies.....but for sure, there is an answer.....The trick is finding it. We have seen some decent results under SB , but do the players just give him 2-3 games then just default back to type.....so from a consistency point of view, has no one to rely on , hence the constant changes. Ps The point we have arrived at in my mind, gives me no confidence who ever comes in, will fix it......something appears spookily wrong to me. Tro I'll say it again If you have a bottle full of poisen water. you empty an 11th what do you have? a bottle of poisoned water (100% poisened) 10/11ths full of poisened water. Add an 11th of pure grade A+ 5star water and mix it, shake it a few times. Now what do you have? A bottle full of poisened water This is AVFC The new infected by the old A complete clearout of the old AND the new that cant be saved from the infection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: Tro I'll say it again If you have a bottle full of poisen water. you empty an 11th what do you have? a bottle of poisoned water (100% poisened) 10/11ths full of poisened water. Add an 11th of pure grade A+ 5star water and mix it, shake it a few times. Now what do you have? A bottle full of poisened water This is AVFC The new infected by the old A complete clearout of the old AND the new that cant be saved from the infection Surely things are not that bad. Must admit it's baffling how shockingly poor we still are. I think villa have this huge negative vibe connected to it and it's not just our fans who feel it. Whats the betting Bruce will be a broken man by the end of the season. The moment Brucie starts losing faith and starts showing signs of desperation then we've had it. I'm still confident things will turn out ok though . Edited January 17, 2017 by Rugeley Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) Steve has stopped short of naming names, but alludes to too many players that have talent, but not much fight. This is something I have seen for some time....we buy players with talent, but not the character,desire or grit to win games. We seem to have an unenviable collection of diluted primma donna's, who feel they only have to turn up and the club name will carry them through. There is no old fashioned scrap & graft for the cause, with this lot. This situation for me was evident in the Prem but has now been exacerbated in the championship......if we don't fix this, I see a bleak future. ps to my mind we are missing essential/crucial ingredients in our players individual games. Edited January 18, 2017 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, TRO said: Steve has stopped short of naming names, but alludes to too many players that have talent, but not much fight. This is something I have seen for some time....we buy players with talent, but not the character and desire to win games. We seem to have an unenviable collection of diluted primarily donna's, who feel they only have to turn up and the club name will carry them through. There is no old fashioned scrap & graft for the cause, with this lot. This situation for me was evident in the Prem but has now been exacerbated in the championship......if we don't fix this, I see a bleak future. It's true this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: It's true this. Its clearly evident to me and I know many other fans feel the same I have spoken to......we keep talking about talent, until we are blue in the face, but we haven't got the other, either. its not going to change until we address it. However, I also think the midfield issue is having a far greater impact on us than we care to admit. Edited January 18, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts