Steve Bruce

[markavfc40]

14 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

76 was the "projected" total before yesterday. Now the "projected" total is 68 - good enough for 10-12th. Two or three more poor performances and it starts to go from a good beginning to a poor one very quickly. 

25 points from 15 games is 1.66 points per game. Over a 46 game season that would get you 76 points. If you are referring to over the rest of this season, which I don't think @Morley_crosses_to_Withe was, it would mean a total of 68 points but that is due to taking less than a point a game for the first 11 games under RDM.

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, avfcdave said:

When he came in he obviously instilled much needed grit and organisation that we were lacking under RDM, but it's now coming at the expense of any attacking movement and creativity. I still feel like we're pretty solid but it's individual mistakes turning 0-0s into defeats. (It says a lot about the standard of this league that no matter how bad we've been we're rarely more than a goal down). The games we have been winning have relied on individuals pulling something out of the hat. Second half at Brighton aside, I never feel like we're knocking on the door under Bruce. 

It's very difficult to get attackimg freedom back when your primary focus is discipline and being hard to beat. I wish there were other answers than having to sign new players all the time but it's painfully clear things can only change with better quality midfielders. At least it sounds like Bruce and the club agree. 

They certainly do.

The main source of frustration is......The managers come in and it takes them so much time to come to the same conclusions we have already been privvy to....difference is they have to fix it.

Then they need the time to set about fixing it.....by this time, we are totally pissed off with frustration.......because matches keep rolling by.

Problem being they( the managers have to see it for themselves).....We have now become over c 6 years a disbelieving fan base, that have been subjected to too many false dawns with managers and players alike.

......But it will turn.

Edited January 15, 2017 by TRO

[delboy54]

Do you think the whole thing with playing Gabby up front was not only to use his experience helping the team (laughable yes I know...but hear me out), but attempt to get him up to match fitness prior to the African football thing, but also get him in the shop window for the January transfer merry go round?

I mean if he were to have scored against Spuds on the telly then maybe some club may have been stupid enough to take him off our hands?

 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

WHen we play, especially when we play 4-4-2, we have a huge gaping hole in our attacking midfield. It's been like this for years to be fair, but it was especially noticeable yesterday again.

We have two deep playing midfielders on the halfway line, two wide players on the touchlines and two strikers in the opposing box.

We have absolutely nothing between the lines. You could draw a huge circle that goes through our players and there's this massive gaping 40 yard hole in the opposing half that nobody ever occupies. Ever.

When we play 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 then it's not so bad because we inevitably have someone designated to play in there. Grealish for example.

But 4-4-2 we're relying on a forward to drop back and fill it and it doesn't happen nearly enough. And when it did yesterday it was McCormack and the only person he had to aim at was Gabby, which is basically nobody.

 

We continue to lack anyone who can link our midfield with attack. Yesterday our midfield was Bacuna, Jedinak, Tshibola and Adomah.
Of those four I'd consider Adomah the only one capable of effectively feeding our attackers.

Tshibola is just another Westwood/Gardner, Jedinak does a job defensively but is inept at passing it forward and Bacuna is just generally terrible at everything. He's awful.

 

We've all known it for months, but until we get players in who can plug those wholes and actually get the ball moving forward effectively then we'll continue to struggle.

 

In the meantime I would have hope that Bruce would have realised that 4-4-2 doesn't work for us. Our central midfield is poor and the only way it's ever half decent is with three central midfielders.

For the next game I'd like to see that 3 re-introduced and bacuna fired out of a cannon into the sun.

We do like to have a spar now and again Stevo.....but I can't find any fault with that.....It did tickle me, imagining a burning "total" arse leaving a cannon.

Seriously 3 in the middle yes.....under the circumstances

[Woodytom]

The fact that January is so difficult to bring players in (as ppl keep pointing out) only makes me question Bruce more for selling gestede without clearly having a replacement in line.

If he thinks gabby and Ross would score the goals through January then I'm really concerned.

It's almost like we've thrown the chance away to be in the mix because we've hoped we can just rock up to these games and wing it. Massive misjudgement imo and poor squad management.

[pacbuddies]

Halfway through the transfer window and this bloke hasn't addressed problems that have been glaringly obvious since just after the season started. He has known for months that Kodjia would be off to ACON and our attacking threat (not much of one I will admit) would be seriously weakened so he sells Gestede and replaces him with................

[TRO]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

I think that is the problem though isn't it that he can't fix it without bringing in 3 or 4 new outfield players.

Overall I think Bruce has still done OK. The points ratio from his first 15 games taken over a while season would give 76 points and most likely a top 6 finish.

I am being a bit simplistic there though. Performances have in the main since he has been here been poor. Even games we have won we haven't been convincing. What I would say is we have ground out results and dug in at home. Away from home is the big worry and where he is fair game for criticism. The players have played like they couldn't give a toss in a number of away games and when that happens almost to a man then the manager has to be held responsible for that. He called them out on it at Norwich and two away games later they put in a dire first 45 minutes at Cardiff. Then yesterday another performance lacking effort and desire was dished up. Despite the personnel he inherited and the glaring holes in the squad that isn't good enough.

I am also unsure exactly what he is trying to do at times. For me with the issues we have in midfield until they could have been filled an option would have been to have pretty much by passed it and stuck a big man up top and built play from there. He sold the only person in the squad who could be utilised in that way and yesterday we found ourselves with our front man option being Gabby, McCormack and an 18 year old on the bench. With no creativity in midfield and those options up top what is the plan to score goals? It may not have been pretty but a least with a big lump up top you can get it up to him and something may drop.

I would go as far to say whilst we look solid at the back and he has addressed the tendency to concede late goals attacking play wise we haven't improved one bit under him. The saving grace was with Kodjia around was he could produce something out of nothing but without him we are not a threat going forward and he has to address this.

My worry now is that this season will just peter out resulting in another hangover going into next season. Bruce has to ensure that doesn't happen. This next couple of weeks the club has to bring in 2 or 3 additions, fill the glaring hole in midfield and the manager has to get the players up for every game and come up with a style of playing to make us a threat going forward. No more of this half arsed crap and I want to see us go out as if every game is a cup final. It almost certainly won't lead us into the top 6 by the end of the season but it can instil a mentality meaning we go into next season in a positive frame of mind.

I would think SB is as pissed off as us Mark with the desire or lack of it.....He has never been associated with that, but it seems he is not the only one, even Gary Rowett and the good job he did had a few games towards the end like that out of his lot before he felt the leather up his jaxy.

I must be honest with you, with a few exceptions, I don't like this team at all.....And I would hate to be the manager of this assembly of shite.

Edited January 15, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

25 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

The fact that January is so difficult to bring players in (as ppl keep pointing out) only makes me question Bruce more for selling gestede without clearly having a replacement in line.

If he thinks gabby and Ross would score the goals through January then I'm really concerned.

It's almost like we've thrown the chance away to be in the mix because we've hoped we can just rock up to these games and wing it. Massive misjudgement imo and poor squad management.

I think the Gestede deal was commercial and not footballing, by that I mean, we have lost too much money fully amortizing players and this was just seen as an opportunity to recover it....I don't think the timing was great and they might feel the same too.....but they may have thought not in our future plans... lets do it, while we can.

I may be wrong here, but I think the club think the task is too big this season and are prepared to run at a slower pace than us. I think they were unprepared for the size of it and are just beginning to understand the magnitude......without coming out and distressing the clubs reputation.

but I could be wrong.

[Woodytom]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

without coming out and distressing the clubs reputation.

I'd rather they just be honest. Then I can have a fair judgement of whether it's worth spending money going to watch it.

I don't mean that in a spoilt way I just think we deserve to know whether we're planning on competing.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

I'd rather they just be honest. Then I can have a fair judgement of whether it's worth spending money going to watch it.

I don't mean that in a spoilt way I just think we deserve to know whether we're planning on competing.

I do understand your point and its valid, but

There are many things riding on the reputation of the club, not least when you are in the market for Players.

There are equally many commercial ventures that the club "pride their reputation on" to negotiate from strength.

I think Steve Bruce has done much to give us an insight in to theTask, but equally he must avoid appearing to blame everyone but himself.

Steve for me is a man who I think will accept all the responsibility, even if some of it could be deemed unfair......However, I also think he has a strong enough character to say " I hear what you are saying, I agree with you, now give me reasonable time to fix it."

Edited January 15, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, delboy54 said:

Do you think the whole thing with playing Gabby up front was not only to use his experience helping the team (laughable yes I know...but hear me out), but attempt to get him up to match fitness prior to the African football thing, but also get him in the shop window for the January transfer merry go round?

I mean if he were to have scored against Spuds on the telly then maybe some club may have been stupid enough to take him off our hands?

 

• I think a bit of it has been Steve Bruces false picture he had of Gabby's earlier Performances at Aston Villa and the personal experience of being on the end of them.
• I think he may not be fully conversant with the deterioration of the players reputation with the fan base....Thinking he is a cult hero.( perhaps he don't read VT)
• I think the situation with the state of the squad is a factor
• and I think that paying such extortion wages makes the club feel better, that they are getting something back.....(that could be debatable from our point of view)

The Wolves manager certainly did us a favour ( Much)with that contract, assuming it was only him, HE might as well set fire to Bodymoor Heath and gone the whole hog.

 

[VillaCas]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Fwiw 

• I don't agree with you about Bruce as you can tell.
• Too early to say with the keeper, but it could be whats in front of ( both) of them...meaning team.....I rate the CB's but not the full backs at present.
• Gabby I agree with 
• Gestede I feel was an Opportunity the club felt they could not pass over.....we have fully amortized too many in recent times
• AFCON has effected us ....just like Benteke leaving.....deprived us of our only source of goals
• Steve Bruce knows whats wrong and for a compendium of reasons can't fix it RIGHT NOW.....He will though.....He needs the personnel to fix it and even then I believe it will be gradual as opposed to spectacular.

Join the band of frustrated souls.....But don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

However, I share your pain.UTV

• To be clear I think Bruce might just be good enough to get us up next season - maybe. I think he will then be found wanting in the Prem and will eventually leave us with his trademark journeyman squad. If that is the height of your ambition then fine but I think we should have gone for someone different. It's all water under the bridge anyway and now he is here he needs to be given this season at least (barring absolute disaster)
• I said I didn't see the point of swapping one inexperienced keeper for another and so far Johnstone looks no upgrade on Gollini - time will tell. I don't think the rest of the team is any excuse for the keeper not performing well - our two best players have been the CBs directly in front of him and were again the only two to emerge with any credit whatsoever yesterday
• Glad you agree about Gabby, he's awful HOWEVER
• Gestede is only an opportunity IF we can take our money without sacrificing our run at the play-offs - with Gabby as the only alternative it was a gamble that didnt pay off at best and rank bad management at worst
• The AFCON was one reason for "depriving us of our only source of goals" but this was known months ago! The sale of Gestede with no proper back-up and lack of action in the transfer market are what has cost us our chance of a play-off spot
• I think SB has done OK so far but our trajectory is down not up and that is really worrying - we must go up next season otherwise the economics start to work against us so all our eggs are in Bruce's hand (so to speak)

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

I'd rather they just be honest. Then I can have a fair judgement of whether it's worth spending money going to watch it.

I don't mean that in a spoilt way I just think we deserve to know whether we're planning on competing.

of course we are planning on it.

but planning on it and getting it are 2 different things.

We'll crack it mate

[Rugeley Villa]

If people just accept what we are and who we are it will make things a lot easier for them. 

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

• To be clear I think Bruce might just be good enough to get us up next season - maybe. I think he will then be found wanting in the Prem and will eventually leave us with his trademark journeyman squad. If that is the height of your ambition then fine but I think we should have gone for someone different. It's all water under the bridge anyway and now he is here he needs to be given this season at least (barring absolute disaster)
• I said I didn't see the point of swapping one inexperienced keeper for another and so far Johnstone looks no upgrade on Gollini - time will tell. I don't think the rest of the team is any excuse for the keeper not performing well - our two best players have been the CBs directly in front of him and were again the only two to emerge with any credit whatsoever yesterday
• Glad you agree about Gabby, he's awful HOWEVER
• Gestede is only an opportunity IF we can take our money without sacrificing our run at the play-offs - with Gabby as the only alternative it was a gamble that didnt pay off at best and rank bad management at worst
• The AFCON was one reason for "depriving us of our only source of goals" but this was known months ago! The sale of Gestede with no proper back-up and lack of action in the transfer market are what has cost us our chance of a play-off spot
• I think SB has done OK so far but our trajectory is down not up and that is really worrying - we must go up next season otherwise the economics start to work against us so all our eggs are in Bruce's hand (so to speak)

Interesting

• Unless the overall landscape changes drastically, by means of an uplifting array of players arriving ( and I am not holding my breath)I don't see us leaving the championship this year.
• I have a real fear there is a school of thought buzzing around the powers that be, to keep their powder dry for the summer and that the start we had has scuppered us.

I may be wrong of course.....just good old speculation.

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, Woodytom said:

The fact that January is so difficult to bring players in (as ppl keep pointing out) only makes me question Bruce more for selling gestede without clearly having a replacement in line.

Ah yes, Gestede....

That dynamic goal machine, full of pace and movement and nuanced passing...

How crazy were we to sell such a key figure in our attacking success so far this season...

[gilbertoAVFC]

Find it very interesting that a couple of years ago our fans were probably too demanding, and now that we have plummeted a lot of people are saying "let's accept who we are". We are one of the biggest clubs in this league and have spent the most amount of money. I think asking for a little more than setting up to draw in every bloody away game we play is not too much to ask.

[mykeyb]

1 hour ago, delboy54 said:

Do you think the whole thing with playing Gabby up front was not only to use his experience helping the team (laughable yes I know...but hear me out), but attempt to get him up to match fitness prior to the African football thing, but also get him in the shop window for the January transfer merry go round?

I mean if he were to have scored against Spuds on the telly then maybe some club may have been stupid enough to take him off our hands?

 

I think you are spot on with the bit about trying to get Gabby fit and ready for the Jan gap, however the flip side is McCormack hasn't seen enough game time and out of the 2 players I know which I would bet on to score goals

[peterms]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

25 points from 15 games is 1.66 points per game. Over a 46 game season that would get you 76 points

I haven't looked at the detail, but haven't most of the points been against the lower teams, who were over-represented in that stretch?  If so, then extrapolating might not be as reasonable as if it were a better cross-section of fixtures.

[Stevo985]

40 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Ah yes, Gestede....

That dynamic goal machine, full of pace and movement and nuanced passing...

How crazy were we to sell such a key figure in our attacking success so far this season...

You're right. But seeing as our game plan yesterday was just to lump balls forward, he'd probably be the bestan for the job if he was here.