VILLAMARV Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, TRO said: Its clearly evident to me and I know many other fans feel the same I have spoken to......we keep talking about talent, until we are blue in the face, but we haven't got the other. its not going to change until we address it. However, I also think the midfield issue is having a far greater impact on us than we care to admit. Its pretty evident when Hutton is getting some of the share of the vote for MOTM against Wolves based on looking like he's trying. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 18, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 18, 2017 35 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: It's true this. Well it's not. We don't have a single Donna. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, BOF said: Well it's not. We don't have a single Donna. Aww, not even watered down a bit mainly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decamoto Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 22 hours ago, terrytini said: I'm never convinced by the ' needs his own players' argument. For one, we have seen enough decent performances under Bruce to prove it can be done with who we have. And IMO a decent Manager comes up with a system to suit the players he has. ( As indeed Bruce has in over half his games). Furthermore I don't share the view that we have a pile of useless players. Again, results have shown they are by and large reasonable top half of the League players, just like most other sides. I think Bruce has made some selection errors recently, some errors in being over cautious, and, yes, we need a couple of decent midfielders. And a settled style and system, more positive than of late. But no I don't go with him needing a virtually brrand new first eleven. I think the issues are more to do with playing with a lack of heart/passion (added to a lack of confidence when we're playing away) than a lack of quality players. I agree that Bruce has made his mistakes recently on top of this. The fact that Tony is willing to splash the cash in wages is more of a reason why players are wanting to come to Villa at the moment, rather than our history/big club etc. Not saying that its wrong to be motivated by money, but I believe that for most of the players that we're attracting, Villa will or are likely to be their biggest payday. I know I'm generalising but what is then their motivation to play well if they're on a 3+year contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, BOF said: Well it's not. We don't have a single Donna. just a few Kebabs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, decamoto said: I think the issues are more to do with playing with a lack of heart/passion (added to a lack of confidence when we're playing away) than a lack of quality players. I agree that Bruce has made his mistakes recently on top of this. The fact that Tony is willing to splash the cash in wages is more of a reason why players are wanting to come to Villa at the moment, rather than our history/big club etc. Not saying that its wrong to be motivated by money, but I believe that for most of the players that we're attracting, Villa will or are likely to be their biggest payday. I know I'm generalising but what is then their motivation to play well if they're on a 3+year contract? Its intrinsic.....Its either in you or its not generally speaking. Why do all the top players in addition to their natural talent .....graft and fight.....because its in their DNA e.g.Costa could cruise and still pick up massive money.....but he don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 4 hours ago, TRO said: Its clearly evident to me and I know many other fans feel the same I have spoken to......we keep talking about talent, until we are blue in the face, but we haven't got the other, either. its not going to change until we address it. However, I also think the midfield issue is having a far greater impact on us than we care to admit. I think we all very much admit the midfield issue is awful ! I don't know anyone who downplays it. But (as you know !) I don't agree with your earlier point...............who that we bought this Summer had a reputation for a lack of fight or desire at their previous Clubs ? It is the opposite if anything, they were nearly all either players of the year or Captains or both ! Of those that were already here, I don't think Baker or Hutton lack character or desire. Amavi ? He has a flaky side to him but no more so than many other Left Backs I watch, he certainly isn't really a shirker. Grealish ? He certainly has faults but I wouldn't say I could ever accuse him of a lack of desire ? That leaves, of those that are regulars, Westwood, Gardner, Gabby, Ayew..........hardly a Team full. And Bruce is almost the only person who thought Gabby worth a go. So for me that comes back simply to (1) the midfield, where we need strength of character, physical strength, and ability - in all positions every game, not just 2/3 positions in 2/4 games. And (2) picking a settled side who know their jobs, and playing a more positive approach than 4 goals in 7 games ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, terrytini said: I think we all very much admit the midfield issue is awful ! I don't know anyone who downplays it. But (as you know !) I don't agree with your earlier point...............who that we bought this Summer had a reputation for a lack of fight or desire at their previous Clubs ? It is the opposite if anything, they were nearly all either players of the year or Captains or both ! Of those that were already here, I don't think Baker or Hutton lack character or desire. Amavi ? He has a flaky side to him but no more so than many other Left Backs I watch, he certainly isn't really a shirker. Grealish ? He certainly has faults but I wouldn't say I could ever accuse him of a lack of desire ? That leaves, of those that are regulars, Westwood, Gardner, Gabby, Ayew..........hardly a Team full. And Bruce is almost the only person who thought Gabby worth a go. So for me that comes back simply to (1) the midfield, where we need strength of character, physical strength, and ability - in all positions every game, not just 2/3 positions in 2/4 games. And (2) picking a settled side who know their jobs, and playing a more positive approach than 4 goals in 7 games ! I disagree then Terry, but, I too don't think Baker falls in to the category of lack of fight....I certainly think Amavi shows little signs of it...i think flaky could be a euphemism for it. But you know, I wasn't saying we bought players with a "reputation" for a lack of fight, they just don't show it with us. The last paragraph tends to lend itself to my thinking. Edited January 19, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Midfield is without doubt the major issue. There's a lack of almost everything in that area - no skill, no ball-winning, no tracking runners, no leadership, no fight, big tackles, no killer passes and, most of all, no goals. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisvilla4 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 46 minutes ago, villarocker said: Midfield is without doubt the major issue. There's a lack of almost everything in that area - no skill, no ball-winning, no tracking runners, no leadership, no fight, big tackles, no killer passes and, most of all, no goals. Basically no midfield! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 We've been a shit show for the best part of 5 years and have already had to change manager this season - it's understandable why players might be a bit hesitant to come here and it's also why people need to chill and accept that the road to recovery takes time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 its so unbelievably annoying that we are so shit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 17 hours ago, terrytini said: I think we all very much admit the midfield issue is awful ! I don't know anyone who downplays it. But (as you know !) I don't agree with your earlier point...............who that we bought this Summer had a reputation for a lack of fight or desire at their previous Clubs ? It is the opposite if anything, they were nearly all either players of the year or Captains or both ! Of those that were already here, I don't think Baker or Hutton lack character or desire. Amavi ? He has a flaky side to him but no more so than many other Left Backs I watch, he certainly isn't really a shirker. Grealish ? He certainly has faults but I wouldn't say I could ever accuse him of a lack of desire ? That leaves, of those that are regulars, Westwood, Gardner, Gabby, Ayew..........hardly a Team full. And Bruce is almost the only person who thought Gabby worth a go. So for me that comes back simply to (1) the midfield, where we need strength of character, physical strength, and ability - in all positions every game, not just 2/3 positions in 2/4 games. And (2) picking a settled side who know their jobs, and playing a more positive approach than 4 goals in 7 games ! I think the issue I have with this line of reasoning is that it oversimplifies the argument in order to make it's point. In some ways it's actually the same with the counter argument over the last few pages I admit that and maybe the wording leaves a lot to be desired. By that rationale though Gabby was a captain once so we cant count him. Westwood captained Crewe too so he's obviously cut from the right cloth. The point isn't about reputation or what they may or may not have done in the past. It's about what we see on the pitch. With our own eyes. Quote players with talent, but not the character,desire or grit to win games. We seem to have an unenviable collection of diluted primma donna's, who feel they only have to turn up and the club name will carry them through. There is no old fashioned scrap & graft for the cause, with this lot. @TRO's original point there. Like I say maybe it's just a bit oversimplified too. But what I see there is a complaint about the mentality of the players. The character bit is all important too for me, it's pretty vague and therefore all encompassing. The Wolves goal on Saturday, Gabby, Jedinak and Tish all just stop running. No one can tell me that's the attitude I want to see on the pitch from Villa players. I want to see them chase lost causes. I want to see them replicate what we're coming up against and losing to in this league, which is 11 man units working hard as a team. Baker epitomises the attitude and application I want to see from all of them. Imagine Nzogbia with his determination, or Ireland. Players are only human. People in other jobs can lose motivation or drive too and I get that. It's part of the human condition. Look at what God went through before he found his motivation to take football seriously again? Life is complicated. Gabby has obviously lost motivation, surely thats evident to all. McCormack looks unfit. Ayew does graft I'll give him that but he's incredibly selfish most of the time trying to do it all and fits the prima donna bit the diluted bit is probably the 9 goals in 50 games I assume. Grealish needs to knuckle down and worry about his progression more than his haircut. (Granted it looks like he's been practicing his corners tbf). I just use them in isolation, but when you have 3/4 of your side with these (albeit perceived) issues ON TOP OF having players in Gardner, Hutton and Westwood who just aren't good enough (imo) you get to having problems with 6 or 7 of your first team and that's a huge issue. No amount of huff and bluster from the rest is going to compensate for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 put simply The sheer volume of shit players in the team drag our better players down to their level either footballing wise or mentality/attitude wise. That's why I bang on till I'm blue in the face about GETTING RID OF ALL THE SHIT ONCE & FOR ALL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I'm pretty sure proper research has been done in regard to how many passengers a team can carry, before the house comes falling down. Obviously that doesn't account for 'a Gabby' in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 5 hours ago, vreitti said: I'm pretty sure proper research has been done in regard to how many passengers a team can carry, before the house comes falling down. Obviously that doesn't account for 'a Gabby' in the team. Its interesting ,because I recall Graham Taylor Mk 1 addressing the same issues and he called them " freeloaders" at the time. We have had our unfair share of them over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Bruce doing a nice tribute to RDM, pathetic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 he can **** off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 The idea on here that he has minimal blame for the dross served up over the last few games is an absolute load of bollocks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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