The Rémi Garde thread

[OutByEaster?]

In terms of the summer, I may be alone, but I still think there are more hits than misses - Amavi can play, Gana is solid enough, I really like Veretout, Ayew is looking better with each game, Traore is just a kid and has something - it's not a complete bust. If you look at the players that are struggling, those that were already here are probably underperforming at least as much as those that arrived.

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

In terms of the summer, I may be alone, but I still think there are more hits than misses - Amavi can play, Gana is solid enough, I really like Veretout, Ayew is looking better with each game, Traore is just a kid and has something - it's not a complete bust. If you look at the players that are struggling, those that were already here are probably underperforming at least as much as those that arrived.

 

You forgot Micah Richards.

[Woodytom]

10 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

In terms of the summer, I may be alone, but I still think there are more hits than misses - Amavi can play, Gana is solid enough, I really like Veretout, Ayew is looking better with each game, Traore is just a kid and has something - it's not a complete bust. If you look at the players that are struggling, those that were already here are probably underperforming at least as much as those that arrived.

 

This a complete wind up?

What's solid about Gana? What do you really like about Veretout? Is ayew really getting better 'each' game?

We're bottom of the league with 6 points. It tells you everything you need to know. 

Yes, before steveo or someone else says, players can play well in a bad team. But not virtually half an 11.

[thunderball]

"Premier League Experience"

Where's that got Mourinho so far this season, and his Premier League Champions.

Are Lescott, Hutton, Guzan, Gabby etc showing the new boys how it should be done?

I see even Fat Sam has had his bounce, and it now looks over.

I think we need to allow Garde to find his feet and have a decent run of games against a mix of teams. I have seen nothing poor about Garde so far, nor particularly great, but I do feel more comfortable with him than that chimpanzee Sherwood.

I would also rather go down with Garde than Fat Sam, and let's face it, I think who ever took the reigns was not going to solve this squads problems in the time available and make up the shortfall against the run of games we have/had?

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, AndyC said:

was about to say similar, I think Sherwood got the bounce because his attitude was the complete opposite to Lamberts, his talk alone lifted the club and fans alike but that can only get you so far.

 

Yes but its that type of bounce we needed unless we had already accepted relegation with the appointment of Garde.

[Blasterpocket68]

Fat Sam  would have been a better choice IMO. He also knows how to get out of the championship. I personally would not like to be another experiment for a foreign coach to cut his teeth on in the premiership .

[John]

On BBC Radio WM tonight Garde said "We will have to take points from that game (Newcastle) and then maybe we will have the chance, if we are not capable to do that then it will be over but for the moment its..I see that as a great opportunity to have still in end the opportunity to get points from direct opponents"

This may be a language issue and he may have been referring to the games against Norwich and Sunderland as well as the game at Newcastle but if that is the case it needs correcting quickly.

Although he may be saying what most of us are thinking next weekend or at best the start of January is far too soon for any manager to be accepting relegation no matter how likely it may seem. It is hardly likely to fill the players with confidence for the rest of the season and would I guess lead them to be resigned to our relegation if their manager had expressed no faith in them turning things around in the remaining games. 

  

[Villarocker]

How f***ing depressing to just see on SSN a list of the managers with the best points totals after 16 games with John Gregory at the top with 40 points, in the 1997/98 season. Yet, here we are with our lowest points total after 16 games. 

How I miss those days! 

[BigAl]

It's very simple we have too many players not up to it .Its only a slim chance but getting a few quality players in Jan is our only chance of staying up .Guzan/Hutton/Richardson/Gestede/Westwood currently not good enough for PL .Owner our biggest problem with his lack of investment ,and what has been invested has been done so poorly by managers scouts or chairman it doesn't really matter who bought the players too many of them just not up to it unless Garde can invest wisely we will go down with less than 20 Pts ,nobody can say he isn't the right man for the job of he makes poor decisions in jan we all can get on his back until then he can't be judged.

[ozvillafan]

For mine, our squad is not that much worse than Leicester's. And it is waaaaay worse than Chelsea's. Yet we are closer to Chelsea than Leicester in the league table.

The difference? Leicester's players would die for each other and give nothing less than 100%. They don't know when they are beaten, even when they are 2 goals behind.

We simply don't have that ethos - and we badly need it in a relegation scrap.

 

 

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

In terms of the summer, I may be alone, but I still think there are more hits than misses - Amavi can play, Gana is solid enough, I really like Veretout, Ayew is looking better with each game, Traore is just a kid and has something - it's not a complete bust. If you look at the players that are struggling, those that were already here are probably underperforming at least as much as those that arrived.

 

I agree, but for me the problem is they will be good players eventually, or in a team with better players.

They're all development projects in a way. Which is fine when you've got a good team to blood them slowly and carry them when you need to. But we're practically a team full of those kind of players, and it doesn't work.

 

If we manage to hold on to the majority of them then I think we'll probably have a good team next season (in the championship). But it's all too late this time around.

[OutByEaster?]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

I agree, but for me the problem is they will be good players eventually, or in a team with better players.

They're all development projects in a way. Which is fine when you've got a good team to blood them slowly and carry them when you need to. But we're practically a team full of those kind of players, and it doesn't work.

 

If we manage to hold on to the majority of them then I think we'll probably have a good team next season (in the championship). But it's all too late this time around.

I think you're right, I think there are a lot of them and I think that brings its own difficulties, and I think they need time to settle and the confidence to play. Neither of which have been easy to come by. There are some duds in there too I think, but I think some of these players will go on to do very well in England.

[GeordieVillan]

With regards to Remi's comments - lets just beat Newcastle and look forward.

Quite honestly, at the moment I would rather not hear from anyone at the club until we have something positive to talk about.

Every week we are getting the same interviews from the manager and the players saying the same things, and then get the same outcome in matches.

I'm still behind Garde, but I think we should have some kind of media lockdown until we pull ourselves together.

Edited December 15, 2015 by GeordieVillan

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

leaguleaI admire your optimism mate even if as things stand I don't in any way share it. I am sure those at the top of the club and the majority of fans were hoping for a quick impact from Garde not a slow improvement. Given our predicament we needed a pretty much instant upturn in results regardless of performances but so far we have seen neither.

If Garde was someone who can improve this bunch but it will take him beyond this season then he was probably the wrong man given the predicament we are in. That is of course assuming this bunch can be improved to become competitive in this league.

It's not really optimism, I'm just saying that it is possible that just because he has little immediate impact ( bounce) doesn't mean he will get less points in the long run.Optimism is difficult as it could arguedd that whoever came in, and whatever initial impact they'd had, we may well have already been too far gone to come back.

I'm not particularly a fan of Garde, but I do think there are different ways of looking at the same problem.

First, let's take the Allerdyce, Pulis, Pearson ( who I did say I thought would be our best choice for this season) scenarios.

If we get relegated with them, we keep them ?...arguably daft, as their sole real plus would've been afirefighters, and they'd have failed. If we do keep them, we continue with ' their' type of football to come back up ( not a guaranteed anymore anyway, lots of good footballing sides come up now)....and any real progress towards a more modern style is postponed another few years. Or we sack them and what ?

Or we appoint a manager who the Board feel will develop the Club. We desperately need to play football in a different way. We've not really played decent footballl for any sustained period for a quarter of a century. We are in some ways old fashioned, old style, relic, past glories Club. There are many ' smaller' Clubs with less resources than Lerner has spent who have redesigned themselves and progressed. Most fans would agree that our last genuinely good times were brief periods under Gregory, Little, and BFR.

Not much. Scraps in fact.

So I like to think that they have said " of course an immediate impact is needed, but what is needed more is to develop THESE players, change them from what are effectively a ragbag of, almost, mercenaries, with no real attachment to the Club, into a genuine TEAM.

Now, even if they did, you could argue that there may be other Managers who could have done that, ( basically because it is always easy for us to say the guys we didn't get could've been better !) That may be the case, but a lot of the names I've seen bandied around would also keep us like a hamster on a wheel.

I've no idea how he will turn out, but the absence of any immediate jump in players (apparent) desire or oomph is not in itself, I would say, necessarily a concern.

It is heresey to think it, and I remember, just the drop to Div 3, but that relegation was also  a cathartic experience and we actually came back a lot stronger....surely something has to happen different, sooner or later, to change this miserable experience, and this type/ style of manager may be better in the long run. I would accept there has been little to make us think he is Wenger 2, and certainly some fans clearly think we are playing as we did under Sherwood, but it is my opinion that there has been a positive difference that gives at least the possibility he could have a positive effect.

Sorry about the ramble I'm struggling with me words tonight !

 

[TRO]

They simply do not know what to say, but feel obligated to say something.

jose mourinho said tonight that he feels some of his players are betraying his work.

it was reported afterwards that Jose feels that his players are betraying him.....not quite the same.

i see things that I find hard to blame managers for, how can you blame a manager for the untidy work of Hutton in conceding the penalty on Walcott, it's just poor play.

[terrytini]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

They simply do not know what to say, but feel obligated to say something.

jose mourinho said tonight that he feels some of his players are betraying his work.

it was reported afterwards that Jose feels that his players are betraying him.....not quite the same.

i see things that I find hard to blame managers for, how can you blame a manager for the untidy work of Hutton in conceding the penalty on Walcott, it's just poor play.

Quite. Poor play.

And poor play has always been there, for every Club, every week. At least half the goals scored are as a result of it. It will always happen. I'm not even sure players should be blamed for it, its crazy for people to think players won't mess stuff up, and mess it up more the worse their confidence is.

Wouldn't you agree that where the Manager takes responsibility is the recruitment, coaching, the system, the spirit, and the sub's?

Hard to blame Garde for a failure to do much about that in 5 minutes ! Apart from the longer term malaise this particular bunch of players have had, until Garde arrived, no clearsystem, apparently little coaching, and a rapid decline to the foot of the Table.

If, a big big if, he keeps a settled side and we get two wins, you never know ( not about staying up but about at least performing like a team) .

To refer to the OP, Leicester were NOT fighting like that for each other this time last year ( and Chelsea were) so things can change !

[lexicon]

Am I the only one who thinks that most of our players are good enough to be doing quite a bit better than this? It's seems to me that our biggest problem is a massive lack of confidence/self-belief rather than ability. 

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

Am I the only one who thinks that most of our players are good enough to be doing quite a bit better than this? It's seems to me that our biggest problem is a massive lack of confidence/self-belief rather than ability. 

I agree, and I think that confidence is coming back ever so excruciatingly slowly. We need a scrappy last minute win to give us an injection of confidence then I think Garde and our team will start to hit our stride. All you have to do is look at Leicester. There's no way in hell they are 30 points better than us, but it just goes to show the difference confidence makes both ways.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 hours ago, ozvillafan said:

For mine, our squad is not that much worse than Leicester's. And it is waaaaay worse than Chelsea's. Yet we are closer to Chelsea than Leicester in the league table.

The difference? Leicester's players would die for each other and give nothing less than 100%. They don't know when they are beaten, even when they are 2 goals behind.

We simply don't have that ethos - and we badly need it in a relegation scrap.

 

 

 

 

And Marc Albrighton...another one slated and deemed as utter dross by our know it all fans!

Edited December 15, 2015 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Villarocker]

Lexicon, 

You mentioned the lack of confidence in the team; Veretout was a prime example on Sunday. First half, he drifted around making himself marked as if to have no chance of receiving the ball. Second half, he was asking for the ball more and improved. 

That was surely down to the half time team talk? 

We have to remember that a lot of the new players are young and they will probably know the significance of what it means to relegate our club. I think the pressure is showing on some of them. A win for this team could work wonders.