PaulC Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 What state was the team last season when Sherwood took over. Its more down to losing 4 key players and the recruitment policy than the fault of any manager. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 49 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said: Quickest write off of a manager ever? I'm talking not prior to the appointment, That happens a lot, but in terms of giving them a fair shot when they get the job. Needs full season for write off, by which time it will be too late to have done anything about it...but that's the unfortunate, and very tense, situation we're in. I can understand people being jumpy, totally get it - jumpy myself. But we do need to sit this one out, there is still half a season to go...and the run up we have is a real test to our new manager. I really don't think we can access, unfortunately, until we're already relegated...bad timing. If we're relegated with no fight, he'll be written off in my mind as he won't have what it takes to defeat the chumpionship. And conversely, if we're relegated but we put up a good fight and it's against the run of play I can very well support him in to get us out of there. Let's see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 12 minutes ago, PaulC said: What state was the team last season when Sherwood took over. Its more down to losing 4 key players and the recruitment policy than the fault of any manager. I think both things play apart. Remi was left with a squad that had lost 4 key players over the Summer and the replacements had been poorly bedded in, left with no confidence and no sense of tactics or positional play. Sherwood has to take the blame for the latter. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) 17 hours ago, Jay.P.A said: His first 5 games have been; Man City (3rd), Everton (10th), Watford (7th), Southampton (12th), and Arsenal (2nd). FFS, what were people expecting? Maximum 4 points IMO - I defy you to name anyone who realistically could've come here and achieved that from who was available out there. In all fairness when we played them Watford were in the bottom 8. I’d have expected 4 points from his first 5 games. Beat Watford and pick up a draw in one of the other games. There is no doubt he inherited a crap situation but it wasn't an impossible task and not a task others haven’t faced. When Sherwood was sacked we were 4 points from safety. We are now 8. You can draw parallels to when Sherwood took over from Lambert. At that time we had not won for 10 games and had taken three points and were like now a pathetic shambles. When Sherwood was sacked we had not won for 9 games and had taken 4 points from 10 games. We were one point from safety with 13 games to go when Lambert was sacked. When Sherwood got the push it was 4 points from safety with 28 games to go. A tough ask to get us safe but one I didn’t feel at that time was an impossible task. I don’t hold out any hope Garde can turn this around now. That isn’t just based on the fact we are now 8 points from safety and are yet to win under him. That is down to the fact that I don’t think since he arrived the players look any more determined under him or are showing any more fight. If anything the opposite has happened and they have shirked responsibility. The least you expect under a new manager is for the players to really roll their sleeves up and suddenly give an extra 10 or 20%. It hasn't happened. I hope that Garde does get the players playing out of their skins. If things don’t show decent improvement though I don’t know if that can be put at Gardes door or we just simply say the players aren't, and were never, good enough. Likewise I don’t know if another manager could have done any better but so far I don’t think anyone could have done much worse either. Maybe after the next 4 games will be a better time to judge though. Edited December 17, 2015 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I'm ofishally behind Garde. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 19 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said: I think both things play apart. Remi was left with a squad that had lost 4 key players over the Summer and the replacements had been poorly bedded in, left with no confidence and no sense of tactics or positional play. Sherwood has to take the blame for the latter. He is, but I think that was partly down to the players not being fit enough or good enough so he didn't know his best team or formation so kept trying different things. If Garde keeps sticking with the same tactics and we keep losing then that is also a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 The further I look at it, the more I think Sherwood has less to be blamed for and the recruitment policy is more to blame. Our squad is so incredibly disjointed. We have no real wingers, but a lump of a striker designed to be a target man. We have a host of decent-on-the-ball midfielders but no-one with a desire to break up play and get the ball forward quickly (maybe Gueye?). We've also signed Jordaw Ayew (striker) and decided to play him as a wide forward for the most part. It's baffling. We should stick with Garde and let him set out how he wants a team to be setup and only recruit players who fit that style. We've got a load of good potential at the moment who don't fit in that comfortably with each other and it's killing us. Ability is there, design is not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Having lost arguably 2 of our best performing players in Amavi and Richards has made an already difficult job nigh on impossible. I'm really not about to blame Remi over the last few games and whatever happens over the rest of the season and next , I'd still like to see what he can build here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 39 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: There is no doubt he inherited a carp situation There's something a bit fishy about this comment. Is it in the right plaice? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AvfcTheObsession Posted December 17, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) 19 hours ago, supernova26 said: This good manager has flucked 2 points out of 18 and plays Gestede every week. An insipid apportionment if ever there was one. But because he's Wenger's mate he seems beyond criticism. And he's still banging the Adama isn't ready drum. I'd be happy if he got a one way EuroStar ticket for Christmas. An obvious dud. 2 points out of 15, not 18. Games which included Arsenal, City, Everton and Saints. Admittedly, I'd have expected at least a couple of points more. Gestede every week? He's started 2 games out of the 5 that Garde's managed, and in one of those only actually played 57 minutes. Please don't make things up to suit your agenda. Most people are quite rightly giving Garde more time to attempt to sort this out, including more favourable fixtures coming up against bottom-half sides (Newcastle, Norwich and Sunderland in 3 of the next 4 games). After the next 3-4 games we'll have a much better idea about how this appointment is looking. Edited December 17, 2015 by AvfcTheObsession 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 17, 2015 4 hours ago, PaulC said: What state was the team last season when Sherwood took over. Its more down to losing 4 key players and the recruitment policy than the fault of any manager. The recruitment policy that Sherwood was a key part of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I don't think most of the players were his picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 17, 2015 3 hours ago, bobzy said: The further I look at it, the more I think Sherwood has less to be blamed for and the recruitment policy is more to blame. O 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: The recruitment policy that Sherwood was a key part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 17, 2015 10 minutes ago, PaulC said: I don't think most of the players were his picks. Based on what? A guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 When the players and the team as a whole has any type of confidence will be the time to judge really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 24 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: The recruitment policy that Sherwood was a key part of. I'm honestly starting to wonder how key he was, though. I mean, I know we can't believe whatever he's said but the signings are incredibly odd on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 17, 2015 Just now, bobzy said: I'm honestly starting to wonder how key he was, though. I mean, I know we can't believe whatever he's said but the signings are incredibly odd on the whole. I don't see why we shouldn't believe what Fox has reiterated that we operate transfers in exactly the same way as most clubs do. Managers live and die by their signings. There's no reason not to apply the same to Sherwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Why should we believe Fox and not Tim though? What makes him more credible at this stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I don't see why we shouldn't believe what Fox has reiterated that we operate transfers in exactly the same way as most clubs do. Managers live and die by their signings. There's no reason not to apply the same to Sherwood. Who are "most clubs", though? And why were us and Newcastle singled out on MOTD for having a particular setup when it comes to recruitment which hasn't boded well? Managers don't really live and die by their signings, they live and die by results. Sherwood didn't achieve them, but I'm starting to feel that the transfers weren't his (on the whole). There's no way you have a recruitment policy in place that incorporates Lescott, Gestede, Amavi and Traore. It makes no sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 1 minute ago, Zatman said: Why should we believe Fox and not Tim though? What makes him more credible at this stage Well the General, Faulkner and Lerner have always been totally 100% honest with us. So clearly everything Fox says is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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