Richard Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Out of interest, what is it you've seen so far that makes you think so. Tactics? Motivation? No ive not seen either of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 14 minutes ago, PaulC said: Crazy muddled thinking by the people who make these decisions at Villa to bring in a French manager with no experience in the Premier League, and I said it at the time. That and bringing in a load of young French league players to replace the experience of Delph, Vlaar, Cleverley and Benteke has sealed out fate. Premier League managerial experience counts for pretty much nothing at all. I don't understand why people are so obsessed with it. The reason Big Sam was an attractive option was, presumably, because he tries to tighten up his defences and grind out results. Garde actually seems very much in the same style, but unfortunately has to deal with our defence which is completely out of sorts. I think Arsenal had 2 shots on target yesterday and scored both. The changing of players has been a major factor, though, alongside Sherwood's apparent inability to get any of them settled in pre-season. It's my belief that we'll see better performances over the next few games under Garde than we have at any other point this season. Once everyone settles down, things should improve. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 5 minutes ago, bobzy said: Premier League managerial experience counts for pretty much nothing at all. I don't understand why people are so obsessed with it. The reason Big Sam was an attractive option was, presumably, because he tries to tighten up his defences and grind out results. Garde actually seems very much in the same style, but unfortunately has to deal with our defence which is completely out of sorts. I think Arsenal had 2 shots on target yesterday and scored both. The changing of players has been a major factor, though, alongside Sherwood's apparent inability to get any of them settled in pre-season. It's my belief that we'll see better performances over the next few games under Garde than we have at any other point this season. Once everyone settles down, things should improve. I disagree I think it counts for a lot, especially when you had 4 pts from 12 games or whatever it was when he came. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) It is obviously way too early to say if he should in charge next season. As things stand we are yet to win a game under him. I think it is hard to judge how well he is doing at present though due to the fact that I think this is a very poor squad. As I said after getting back from the game yesterday one of my biggest disappointments since he arrived has been how slow we start games under him. Given the situation we are in you expect the players to be fired up but too many times they have come out and initially played without any desire. That is how it appears at least and against Everton we conceded 3 early goals, against Southampton they had numerous very good chances in the first half hour and again yesterday we were two down before half time. Admittedly we started the second half quite well but Arsenal never got out of second gear. You hope under a new manager you get that bounce of a team suddenly picking up by 20 or 30% and looking a yard faster and more determined but it simply hasn’t happened. In terms of our play there has, for me, been no notable improvements. We are still very poor at the back, we still create very little, our build up play is very slow and laboured, we still don’t score many goals and we still fail to retain decent possession. The overriding feeling is though that this is simply down to too many players being out of their depth. One or two players have improved since he arrived, most notably Ayew, but how much that is due to Garde or simply them settling in and having had more game time I don’t know. I hope things improve under him I really do but they are never going to improve anywhere near enough to see us safe. I am not sure now though that staying up was a realistic ambition under any manager. What bench mark he should be set in terms of points it is difficult to say. I said when he arrived that I hoped for a point a game ratio at least but even that is looking too ambitious. I guess we will have a better idea after the next half a dozen games and at the very least now I want to see us really go for it in games and set up personnel, formation and mentality wise to go all out for wins. If that costs us a couple of good hidings along the way so be it as we have f all to lose now. Edited December 14, 2015 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) 3 minutes ago, PaulC said: I disagree I think it counts for a lot, especially when you had 4 pts from 12 games or whatever it was when he came. Eddie Howe has no Premier League experience. Alex Neil has no Premier League experience. Quique Sanchez Flores has no Premier League experience. Tim Sherwood had no Premier League experience. It's just not a thing. Edited December 14, 2015 by bobzy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Fair enough but Eddie Howe has played for the club, he has taken them from league 1 to the Premier League. Massive difference to just walking into a club. Alex Neil I give you but he did get them promotion from the championship, Sanchez Flores ok i accept but he has managed a few more clubs than Garde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 14, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2015 19 minutes ago, PaulC said: ok I think he will be gone before the end of the season myself. Not a chance in hell. Even if he was the worst manager we've ever had, he still wouldn't get the sack this season. There would be no benefit in getting a third manager of the season in at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danwichmann Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted December 14, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) 12 hours ago, lexicon said: He inherited a completely demoralised sad sack of shite from Sherwood. He's having to undo the untold damage that complete cretin did and at the same time get them working on something new. He's got a massive, massive task and he'll need our support to get things right. To be honest, if we go down, it's not his fault and I don't mind if we do, so long as we keep him and keep working towards his style of play. Agree with this completely. If Garde was the manager at the start of the season I think we would be in a much better position. When I look at us play I see a team who are shot to bits of morale, belief and confidence. We really need to sneak or fluke a win to get them out of it. I don't put any of this on Garde at all. It's a mentality thing with our players. Edited December 14, 2015 by PieFacE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 2 hours ago, markavfc40 said: It is obviously way too early to say if he should in charge next season. As things stand we are yet to win a game under him. I think it is hard to judge how well he is doing at present though due to the fact that I think this is a very poor squad. As I said after getting back from the game yesterday one of my biggest disappointments since he arrived has been how slow we start games under him. Given the situation we are in you expect the players to be fired up but too many times they have come out and initially played without any desire. That is how it appears at least and against Everton we conceded 3 early goals, against Southampton they had numerous very good chances in the first half hour and again yesterday we were two down before half time. Admittedly we started the second half quite well but Arsenal never got out of second gear. You hope under a new manager you get that bounce of a team suddenly picking up by 20 or 30% and looking a yard faster and more determined but it simply hasn’t happened. In terms of our play there has, for me, been no notable improvements. We are still very poor at the back, we still create very little, our build up play is very slow and laboured, we still don’t score many goals and we still fail to retain decent possession. The overriding feeling is though that this is simply down to too many players being out of their depth. One or two players have improved since he arrived, most notably Ayew, but how much that is due to Garde or simply them settling in and having had more game time I don’t know. I hope things improve under him I really do but they are never going to improve anywhere near enough to see us safe. I am not sure now though that staying up was a realistic ambition under any manager. What bench mark he should be set in terms of points it is difficult to say. I said when he arrived that I hoped for a point a game ratio at least but even that is looking too ambitious. I guess we will have a better idea after the next half a dozen games and at the very least now I want to see us really go for it in games and set up personnel, formation and mentality wise to go all out for wins. If that costs us a couple of good hidings along the way so be it as we have f all to lose now. Highlighted certain sections. My belief here is, the players feel they're already down, whatever they may say in public. The size of the mountain in front of them is so massive, it terrifies and demotivates them. They only start to play when the game is already lost because that's when the nerves go, and they can have a bit more freedom. For the same reason, I expect us to improve significantly after we've been mathematically relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted December 14, 2015 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2015 I disagree HanoiVillan. The reason yesterday made me feel positive about our plight is because despite the situation and despite the opposition on the day, that team genuinely did not play like a side who believed they were down. Even when they were losing 2-0 they were continuing to attack and play constructively. Obviously they will need to continue doing that, and the next game is another day. But I don't think they believe it's a lost cause. Not yet anyway. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 8 minutes ago, BOF said: I disagree HanoiVillan. The reason yesterday made me feel positive about our plight is because despite the situation and despite the opposition on the day, that team genuinely did not play like a side who believed they were down. Even when they were losing 2-0 they were continuing to attack and play constructively. Obviously they will need to continue doing that, and the next game is another day. But I don't think they believe it's a lost cause. Not yet anyway. My point is they didn't start playing until they were 2-0 down, and that says something to me. Anyway, we'll see next weekend. I was going to write that they need to treat that game like its a Cup Final, but then I remembered how they actually treated a real Cup Final, so maybe don't play like that. We'll see whether they look up for it or not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 14, 2015 Moderator Share Posted December 14, 2015 4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: My point is they didn't start playing until they were 2-0 down, and that says something to me. I didn't realise you were saying that. I have to say I completely disagree with that too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 2 minutes ago, BOF said: I didn't realise you were saying that. I have to say I completely disagree with that too. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 From his comments after the game, he wasn't expecting to get anything from Arsenal and is focusing on the next run of games against those around (ha!) us. I assume he was going for a Man City-style point. Given other bottom half teams' results against the 'top' teams that's the first disappointing sign for me. However, I think (hope) we'll see a more aggressive set-up for the next few weeks. Remi knows this is it for our season. Whatever happens though I'd like him to stay and build something. I'll send him some glitter to sprinkle on the turd he's polishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 We should look at a starting line up similar to the Leicester game which was our best performance this season but for poor substitutions. i Think we played 4231 Guzan Bacuna Richards Lescott Amavi Sanchez Westwood Gil Grealish Sinclair Agbonlahor maybe swap Lescott for Okore, Gueye for westwood and Ayew for Sinclair.........Lewis Kinsella for Amavi ? So basically what you are saying is start the team that played Leicester but change about a third of it! [emoji2] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 There's that old chestnut again Yes but its true, I would either have sacked Sherwood when Sam was available or stuck with Sherwood rather than bring Garde in. Watford have a foreign manager with no PL experience before this season and they bought a load of new players in the summer so this PL experience tosh doesn't really stack up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 8 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Out of interest, what is it you've seen so far that makes you think so. Tactics? Motivation? Scott my response was facetious. I just think that we do not look to have any organisation about us at all, these are professional footballers some of whom have had long distinguished careers they dont forget how to organise. In addition they may be lacking in skill but surely not fight, surely they should put a shift in and i'm not seeing it. Both of those come from the manager IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 14, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2015 I'm surprised by people saying we don't look organised, or at least more organised than we did under Sherwood. The difference is day and night to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I didnt say we were worse than under sherwood. there is improvement, but not enough again IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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