El Zen Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: That probably ought to be enough evidence to suggest that "xG" is bollocks. It had Newcastle bottom, and Liverpool's 18 point advantage was overturned to have them come second. 12th place Everton "should" have finished several positions above 6th place Tottenham. It's nonsense. You highlight one of the key problems with it. They have a good goalkeeper. Counts for nothing in the "xG" game. It assumes all strikers and goalkeepers perform at the average level. It's a bullshit stat. It’s not bullshit if you use it for what it’s meant to be used for. No one is saying xG means everything, and that good goalkeeping and clinical finishing is irrelevant. They are obviously crucial elements to being a good football team. XG does tell us something of interest about games, though. It’s awfully simplistic and luddite to argue otherwise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Michelsen said: It’s not bullshit if you use it for what it’s meant to be used for. No one is saying xG means everything, and that good goalkeeping and clinical finishing is irrelevant. They are obviously crucial elements to being a good football team. XG does tell us something of interest about games, though. It’s awfully simplistic and luddite to argue otherwise. It has some place in analysing how a team is doing creating chances and preventing the opponent from creating chances, but I'm getting sick to death of people treating it as the single greatest benchmark for how a match should have turned out, and I think you're wrong to claim "no one is saying xG means everything". Even a few posts above, Newcastle are apparently "lucky" over the course of a season, because they had a keeper in fine form, and clinical finishing? Nah. In my rage, I perhaps went a bit far, as you say, it has some uses. It's commonly being used as a far more important indicator of a team than it actually is though, IMO. Edited December 29, 2020 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: It has some place in analysing how a team is doing creating chances and preventing the opponent from creating chances, but I'm getting sick to death of people treating it as the single greatest benchmark for how a match should have turned out, and I think you're wrong to claim "no one is saying xG means everything". Even a few posts above, Newcastle are apparently "lucky" over the course of a season, because they had a keeper in fine form, and clinical finishing? Nah. Having watched Newcastle, though, they are a little bit lucky to be relatively safe. XG is a useful tool to quantify that. However, good on them for having a good keeper and striker. That’ll save Bruce’s bacon, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Smith? BLM? Alex or Amy, please stop. IMO Steve Bruce is a Representative for Wellingborough and a terrible terrible football manager. People like him will be gone from the game for good in 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Ahhh, Brucie has been talking about us; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55475530 "We'd all love to have what Everton have been able to do over the last two or three years and certainly, since I left Aston Villa, the spending power that has propelled them up the league. dude... You spent the most of that not promoting us 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Ahhh, Brucie has been talking about us; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55475530 dude... You spent the most of that not promoting us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Ahhh, Brucie has been talking about us; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55475530 dude... You spent the most of that not promoting us No Steve Having a good Manager has propelled us up the League. And the funds he has been given since is due to the fact he got us promoted after about 6 month's in the job. Something your heavily backed ass couldn't do in 3yrs. Edited December 29, 2020 by av1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I think you're wrong to claim "no one is saying xG means everything". Even a few posts above, Newcastle are apparently "lucky" over the course of a season, because they had a keeper in fine form, and clinical finishing? Nah. If you actually read my post I said I thought Newcastle were very lucky based on actually watching them last year, not because of xG. It seemed like more people missed chances and hit the woodwork against them in games they won by 1 goal than against anyone else. In fact I didn't even mention xG. But sure, me watching Newcastle and getting the impression that they were lucky at key moments "ought to be enough evidence to suggest that "xG" is bollocks" despite it having absolutely **** all to do with xG. Clinical finishing had nothing to do with it either, they scored 38 goals from 36.5xG. Pretty much spot on. Edited December 29, 2020 by YouUnastanFren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 3 hours ago, lapal_fan said: Ahhh, Brucie has been talking about us; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55475530 dude... You spent the most of that not promoting us £40m Joelinton, £20m 100-year-deal for Callum Wilson. The poor bargain hunters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 29, 2020 Moderator Share Posted December 29, 2020 Bruce revisionism at its finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 3 hours ago, lapal_fan said: Ahhh, Brucie has been talking about us; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55475530 dude... You spent the most of that not promoting us Oh I hate him. He had John Terry and Robert Snodgrass in the championship. Yeah no spending power for poor Steve Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Oh I hate him. He had John Terry and Robert Snodgrass in the championship. Yeah no spending power for poor Steve Bruce. 10m Hogan 4m Lansbury 3m Hourihane Abraham on loan Snodgrass on loan John Terry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 17 hours ago, TrentVilla said: He hasn’t though, that’s factual regardless of your opinion. Nobody is lying and I’ve literally no idea the relevance of BLM to this. You perhaps should look at you own posts on the point re respect. He has. And you really need to stop attributing me opinions I have never said, which you admitted to doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Turning supporters apathetic towards their own team = Bruce is the master. I tried to support him as long as possible, but he really just stank up the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 17 hours ago, av1 said: Who's opinion to believe? 1 solitary voice on a Villa forum or 60 thousand Geordies that watch ever game? Mmmm. There are more than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 34 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Oh I hate him. He had John Terry and Robert Snodgrass in the championship. Yeah no spending power for poor Steve Bruce. Bolasie and Snodgrass on 65k a week a pop. Chicken feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Everyone opinion is equally valid, my arse. A Professor of dentistry for 40yrs does not have a debate with some ejit that removes his teeth with string and a door Dara O'Briain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 On 29/12/2020 at 18:49, TrentVilla said: No he hasn't, I haven't and I didn't. This is pointless, you've formed your opinion and refuse to acknowledge when people show you to be incorrect so for the 3rd time I'm done debating it with you. The thousands of Newcastle fans must all be wrong and you must be right. This is opinions you attributed to me, which I never wrote anywhere and you got them out of your head. I never said Bruce was a better manager than Benitez in general: On 26/12/2020 at 22:24, TrentVilla said: Ok.... you are right... Bruce is a better manager than Rafa On 26/12/2020 at 22:31, TrentVilla said: I'm paraphrasing. To summarise your actual points though, * There is no difference in the football of Bruce and Rafa - which is wrong * You questioned who the tactical genius was of the two suggesting it was actually Bruce - which is wrong * You claimed Bruce was out performing Rafa on points - which is wrong Here you admit to "paraphrasing", which means attributing opinions to me that I have never stated. I never said they employ equal tactics. I said they both play defensive football. I never said anything about tactical football. But, I'll give you the last point because Bruce got one point less than Benitez. I still am adamant that Newcastle with Benitez had better offensive players (Ayoze Perez and Rondon) than Newcastle with Bruce last season (Joelinton). So, if I feel that Bruce has done a very good job points wise, than that is what the hard facts of the table says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 22 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: I last loaded this thread a day ago and somehow there's *four* unread pages Is Bruce a better manager than Rafa? No, of course not. Were Newcastle both defensive and frequently extremely boring to watch under Rafa? Definitely yes. Is Bruce doing a bad job? Well, 'yes' if you want good football, 'no' if you don't want to be relegated. At the end of the day, Bruce has done a somewhat worse job than Benitez because, while the team finished in the same place in the league, the fans are unhappier now so he is performing worse at his real job, which is 'Mike Ashley's human shield'. They presumably like him less both because of who he is in comparison to who Rafa was, in terms of their success with the club and their CV's, and also because Bruce has them playing even more boring football. But to be clear, they were still both defensive and boring under Benitez. I think with Benitez the thinking with the fans was probably that he could do a good job if he were backed more. As we're seeing with Bruce, you can throw £100m at him and your ceiling will always be midtable because tactics might as well be Samoan, it's that foreign to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: I think with Benitez the thinking with the fans was probably that he could do a good job if he were backed more. As we're seeing with Bruce, you can throw £100m at him and your ceiling will always be midtable because tactics might as well be Samoan, it's that foreign to him. Agree with that, with Rafa there was potential there, might have been unrealistic but there was the thought that if you gave him money or they got new owners that they would get better You don't think that with Bruce, you know what his ceiling is, they could give him the Saudi money finish 12th and be told to be happy with it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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