Chop chop! Lets all gawp at Newcastle (again)

[TrentVilla]

29 minutes ago, Michelsen said:

I think Bruce is probably very bad at, and not very interested in, analyzing football games. There’s a chance he really doesn’t understand the criticism he gets, because he actually has a different experience of the game. I’d be shocked if he watches a lot of video, and he’s arrogant enough to trust his own guts, instincts and experience over objective analysis. With that mindset and lack of perspective, you’re not likely to accept criticism. To paraphrase a geordie on one of their forums: he’s a ****ing **** cowardly ****ing word removed of an excuse of a human being

I think you give him too much credit. I think he is lazy, he doesn’t really coach or prepare his team and he certainly doesn’t analyse opposition, remember his famous comments re Forestieri when we were about to play Sheff Wednesday?

[El Zen]

Just now, TrentVilla said:

I think you give him too much credit. I think he is lazy, he doesn’t really coach or prepare his team and he certainly doesn’t analyse opposition, remember his famous comments re Forestieri when we were about to play Sheff Wednesday?

That’s excactly what I was trying to say, but perhaps I wasn’t very clear

To clarify, I think he has very little interest in analysing games, so he’ll just go with what his gut tells him, and he’s arrogant enough for his gut to tell him his teams are playing better than they actually are. So, when people criticise him, he’ll think they’re overreacting, as he’s literally seeing games from one perspective only: his own gut. The lazy, arrogant ****.

[sharkyvilla]

6 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I think you give him too much credit. I think he is lazy, he doesn’t really coach or prepare his team and he certainly doesn’t analyse opposition, remember his famous comments re Forestieri when we were about to play Sheff Wednesday?

I'd forgotten about that.  That was the final nail in the coffin for me, he should have been sacked for gross negligence for that.  I can't remember how long it was before he got sacked.

Edit: that and when Sherwood was nearly crying and throwing the players under the bus in the interview after his subs **** us up when we were 2-0 up against Leicester are the two lowest points from our managers I can remember.

Edited December 27, 2020 by sharkyvilla

[sidcow]

48 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

He wheeled out the "mass hysteria" line yesterday so yep nothings changed 

Yep, I had a wry smile on my face when I saw that. 

[TrentVilla]

7 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I'd forgotten about that.  That was the final nail in the coffin for me, he should have been sacked for gross negligence for that.  I can't remember how long it was before he got sacked.

Edit: that and when Sherwood was nearly crying and throwing the players under the bus in the interview after his subs **** us up when we were 2-0 up against Leicester are the two lowest points from our managers I can remember.

Worst of it was Foresteri was serving the second of a three match ban so he clearly hadn’t even watched their previous game while you have to assume our prep such as it was focussed on a striker not available. Incompetent.

[The_Steve]

The David Brent of motivational managers

 

 

[PieFacE]

I'm just so glad this man is no longer attached to our football club in any way whatsoever. 

[momo]

6 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

You really need to read your own posts back. You said they played the same under Benitez as they do under Bruce, they don't and any Newcastle fan would tell you that. You claimed Bruce was doing a better job than Benitez, he isn't. You claimed Benitez got them relegated despite taking over in the March and almost saving them, he certainly wasn't responsible for relegating them. You suggested that Bruce rather than Benitez was the greater tactically which frankily ranks as one of the daftest opinions I've seen on here.

And I'm the one talking rubbish? Good luck finding anyone who agrees with you on this lot.

Bruce took over a stable PL side from Rafa and has been backed financially in a way that Rafa wasn't, their football is far worse, their tactics non existent and their fans are calling for his head yet loved Rafa. But what would they know? They must all be wrong and you must be right.

I don't have a personal vendetta against Bruce I just think he is a poor manager not remotely in the same class as Benitez and I think you are talking absolute drivel. 

Talking of drivel, Joelinton wasn't a good enough replacement for Rondon so I'd say Rafa was right on that. But that isn't why he quit, he quit because he wanted total control over transfers and the club wouldn't give him that.

As for what was better under Benitez, the tactics, their organisation, the mentality of the team and their approach to games, the football they played, the results relative to resources (Bruce has had far more investment in players than Rafa). You could ask any Newcastle fan and they would tell you the same. 

How has Bruce been backed more than Benitez? If the players bought last summer wasn't good enough for Benitez to progress with, yet Bruce managed to get them the to the same level point wise (giver or take ONE point), then I believe Bruce did a good job or in fact better. Somehow, the tactics Bruce employs work. Is it ugly? Sure. Yet it works for his teams. If you don't like his playing style, fine enough. If you don't like his media persona, then fine enough.

[TrentVilla]

3 minutes ago, momo said:

How has Bruce been backed more than Benitez? If the players bought last summer wasn't good enough for Benitez to progress with, yet Bruce managed to get them the to the same level point wise (giver or take ONE point), then I believe Bruce did a good job or in fact better. Somehow, the tactics Bruce employs work. Is it ugly? Sure. Yet it works for his teams. If you don't like his playing style, fine enough. If you don't like his media persona, then fine enough.

Bruce has in circa 14 months a net spend in excess of £100m which has been predominately spent on attacking players. In the three years Rafa was there their net spend was -£11m.

Bruce has enjoyed financial backing that is on an entirely different level to that Rafa worked with.

[momo]

1 minute ago, TrentVilla said:

Bruce has in circa 14 months a net spend in excess of £100m which has been predominately spent on attacking players. In the three years Rafa was there their net spend was -£11m.

Bruce has enjoyed financial backing that is on an entirely different level to that Rafa worked with.

And Smith was backed with £130m, yet was a ghost goal from being relegated with Villa. And the backing last summer was for Benitez. But he left because he didn't get Rondon. Stop going i cirkles.

[villa4europe]

12 minutes ago, momo said:

How has Bruce been backed more than Benitez? If the players bought last summer wasn't good enough for Benitez to progress with, yet Bruce managed to get them the to the same level point wise (giver or take ONE point), then I believe Bruce did a good job or in fact better. Somehow, the tactics Bruce employs work. Is it ugly? Sure. Yet it works for his teams. If you don't like his playing style, fine enough. If you don't like his media persona, then fine enough.

It works depends on what it is you're actually trying to achieve 

Like the man himself says bottom half of the PL, that's all he'll ever be, that's his target, stay in the PL by playing god awful defensive football often with no intention of winning rather just don't lose 

Who wants that for their club? 

[TrentVilla]

5 minutes ago, momo said:

And Smith was backed with £130m, yet was a ghost goal from being relegated with Villa. And the backing last summer was for Benitez. But he left because he didn't get Rondon. Stop going i cirkles.

Wtf? I’m the one going in circles??  Smith has knob all relevance.
You asked a question, I gave you an answer, unfortunately for you it showed how wrong you have been. Again.

You then accuse me of going in circles and then go back to an incorrect point you’ve previously made. Absolutely laughable, I’m done entertaining this rubbish.

[villa_shere]

1 hour ago, momo said:

And Smith was backed with £130m, yet was a ghost goal from being relegated with Villa. 

Some serious trolling unless you believe that’s true

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, momo said:

And Smith was backed with £130m, yet was a ghost goal from being relegated with Villa. And the backing last summer was for Benitez. But he left because he didn't get Rondon. Stop going i cirkles.

Oh no. I was enjoying the back and forth there until this.

You've outed yourself Alex.

[Brumstopdogs]

 

 

 

[Designer1]

[The_Steve]

7 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

 

 

 

There or thereabouts.

[Jonesy7211]

How do people not see it, or is it only the fans of the clubs he manages that do?

I've watched Newcastle quite a few times since he began his tenure, and I honestly can't tell you how they've picked up so many points. Going forward his team offers nothing, and it's very similar to when he managed us. Having one of the most expensively assembled championship clubs seriously papered over the cracks for a long time. Goodness knows what would've happened should he have taken over instead of Lambert when we only had the kids and the bomb squad. And I say that as someone who watched in horror at Lambert's regression.

I don't wish him any ill will, but he's so out of place in the modern game. From what I can make of it his tactics only consist of sit deep, don't press, and hope he nicks something on the break or on a set piece. It's a waste of some capable players such as Shelvey, Saint Maximin, and Almiron. It was the same when he was here too, there were so many games where we wouldn't attack seriously inferior teams. The game against Bolton when it was snowing sticks in the mind.

He doesn't improve players either. Look at the difference in the players still in the squad that he bought in. I'd argue all improved significantly after being coached properly by Deano, which ultimately ended with promotion.

He's always had excuse after excuse as well. When we lost, it was the players. When we won it was him. They hated him at Sunderland because he's a Geordie, he wasn't liked at Villa because he managed the noses, he's not liked at Newcastle because he managed Sunderland. It's never him. Not to go all holier than though but I don't think personal growth is possible without recognizing your flaws and working on them.

And not to jump in to the earlier argument, but Benitez is hands down a better manager than Bruce. Both incredibly defensive managers, but Bruce is far more negative. I do blame Benitez though for introducing 2 defensive holding midfielders to the Premier League, I don't remember anyone doing that before he did at Liverpool  I think you only have to look at their achievements in the game to see who is the better manager. His Valencia tenure is as impressive as it gets.

[Keyblade]

10 hours ago, momo said:

He even deemed Joelinton not good enough replacement for Rondon.

That looks like sound judgement to me.

[Keyblade]

27 minutes ago, Jonesy7211 said:

The game against Bolton when it was snowing sticks in the mind.

That run of games infuriated me. We had a good chance to get back into the top 2. Then we go and lose at home to QPR and then to Bolton away, barely laying a glove on either. We lose even more ground on Cardiff and to make matters worse, Fulham then pass us into 3rd.