Genie Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The decision to give Lambert a new contract was truly awful. With all the shit that small heath have going on off the field at least the people in control recognised they needed to change the manager and a reaping the rewards for that decision. What is Randy's excuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted January 11, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) I don't know why it has to be repeated but here you go: Randy has been our chairman for, what, eight years. Go and look at Doug's first eight years in charge of the club and tell me what was worse. We got relegated to the second division and then the third, but now is worse!? I don't think anyone believes that. How about those early years in Ellis's second crack at it? You know the years that saw the European Champions get dismantled and the club relegated!? How do they hold up? Not worse? It's so easy to isolate a particular part of Ellis's reign and pretend how great that was, but it's not a fair comparison to make. The man had much longer in the job to make us 'compete' and we only did that in flashes. And if you weren't around then it still shouldn't be over looked. You have to accept it as a part of the club's history. If you ignore that then you'd have to dismiss our glorious past and you might as well ignore that we've ever won the European Cup because you weren't there to witness it. Edited January 11, 2015 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Have to agree with you Richard. Lerner is not a victim in this. No one is saying he is, some just don't take the rose-tinted glasses view of Ellis' reign. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I guess the Lerner vs Ellis debate, whilst probably an irrelevant comparison is also slightly subjective depending on age or how long you've been supporting Villa. You can read about our history but unless you were there you'll never truly know how it felt during the good and bad times. I was born in 85 so for me the best time being a Villa fan was during the mid to late 90's and and the first couple of years of Lerner's reign. Fairly even for me in that regard for different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 A Tale of Two Chairmen "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair…" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 For all his faults, and all the things he's done wrong you can't blame Lerner for 11 goals in 21 games. They don't even get close to scoring. Those players are good enough to score goals. That's the managers fault and you can try all you like but you can't shift the blame onto Lerner for that. He can be apportioned part of the blame as he's never provided the funding to sign players identified by Lamber (and others) that may have made our attacking play better ie, Tadic, Belhanda, Chadli, Mertens, Kiyotake et al (and most likely soon-to-be Sinclair and Gil) Are you saying the players put out yesterday aren't good enough to produce more than one shot on target? That the ones out last week are not good enough to threaten Blackpool? The squad is no better than 11 goals in over half a season? Nah. Not having that. Burley manage to score goals and they didn't need to buy players as mentioned above. Lerner can be blamed for many things, but our lack of goals isn't one of them. Very good post IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 11, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2015 It's completely unimportant whether one person is subjectively worse, in whoever's opinion, than another from a previous time. It's different ages, and different circs as OBE says. There's only one bloke be running the club for the past whatever it is - 8? years. The last few have been very, very poor for supporters and there's not much evidence to say he's doing a good job. The finances have been poor, the results poor, the performances poor, the fare on offer for the fans has been dismal. We've had McLeish foist upon us despite all sane advice to the contrary and no progress is being made. The whole club is in a kind of suspended animation while other clubs get on with things. It's a case of neglect and lack of due care and attention. Meh. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieVillan Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Lerner has done many things wrong and we do need a change of owner, but in no way is he responsible for the fact we cannot score goals or even make any chances against teams that have worse players than us. Anyone who says otherwise is actually insane. Our strategic situation and failings i.e. we have very poor future prospects, and that any manager would struggle to get us higher than 8th in the league - is down to the the Chairman and Board (and to FFP and the way the game has changed). Our operational situation and failings, i.e. the current league position and performances - is down to the manager and players. Happy to argue the toss over whether its Lambert or the players themselves, but Lerner is not in charge of training, tactics or actually out on the field kicking a ball around. Edited January 11, 2015 by GeordieVillan 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamsonwoodVillan Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I think the biggest emotion Lerner will feel when he eventually sells is relief. If he can get through yet another season of worry and finally sell (probably to anybody - not carefully selecting a buyer) then I think that will feel like a heck of a victory for him. I personally just hope that he will partly be remembered as the guy who spent a few quid on restoring some of the club, not just remembered as the guy who went full circle spending huge amounts and achieved nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) To be fair it's like choosing who's worse Starln or Hitler. Although I can't ever remember be this bored and unintrested under Ellis. Edited January 11, 2015 by Oaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Has to back Lambert with significant funds or sack him. Worse than Ellis Ridiculous. I'm no fan of Lerner by the way - far from it. Em no it isn't a ridiculous statement. So far our dear leader has owned Villa for 8 full seasons since he bought Herbert out. Our highest placement was 6th 3 seasons in a row and lowest is 16th. So far. We have reached 1 league cup final, and 2 semi finals (1 league cup and 1 FA cup). Our average position so far is 10.5 and dropping. Now in the last 8 seasons of the great bicycle kick inventor Villa's highest position was 6th (twice) and lowest 16th (twice as well). We reached 1 FA Cup final and 2 other cup semi finals (2 league cup semi finals). Our average position in this period was 9.5. If you remember this is the era when most people wanted Ellis out, was a old duffer and we were getting left behind etc. And we still did better than what Lerner has given. It is unfair to compare the previous 8 seasons as we occasionally had good sides like coming 2nd and winning 2 league cups, and also coming in the top 5 twice.Which will never happen under Lerner. Ever. Edited January 11, 2015 by The Fun Factory 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 To be fair it's like choosing who's worse Starln or Hitler. Although I can't ever remember be this bored and unintrested under Ellis. That'll be a feeling of futility. At least there was a point in complaining about Ellis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Has to back Lambert with significant funds or sack him. Worse than Ellis Ridiculous. I'm no fan of Lerner by the way - far from it. Em no it isn't a ridiculous statement. So far our dear leader has owned Villa for 8 full seasons since he bought Herbert out. Our highest placement was 6th 3 seasons in a row and lowest is 16th. So far. We have reached 1 league cup final, and 2 semi finals (1 league cup and 1 FA cup). Our average position so far is 10.5 and dropping. Now in the last 8 seasons of the great bicycle kick inventor Villa's highest position was 6th (twice) and lowest 16th (twice as well). We reached 1 FA Cup final and 2 other cup semi finals (2 league cup semi finals). Our average position in this period was 9.5. If you remember this is the era when most people wanted Ellis out, was a old duffer and we were getting left behind etc. And we still did better than what Lerner has given. It is unfair to compare the previous 8 seasons as we occasionally had good sides like coming 2nd and winning 2 league cups, and also coming in the top 5 twice.Which will never happen under Lerner. Ever. I am no fan of Ellis but he would have never have put up with this useless manager and his pathetic record of under achievement. He would have been shown the door long ago. Lerner is by far worse than Ellis because he doesn't care a jot about Villa and he hardly ever turns up to games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 To be fair it's like choosing who's worse Starln or Hitler. Although I can't ever remember be this bored and unintrested under Ellis. That'll be a feeling of futility. At least there was a point in complaining about Ellis. I think you're right, he's not even here to be bothered by it. The face he hasn't sacked this manager is the worse thing. I can understand to some extent the cut backs and under investment, but to make us watch this shit year after year seems like some sort of punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Spoony Posted January 11, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2015 My current feeling with all of this is I want to throw one of those tantrums when you lie on the floor and kick, scream and cry out of pure frustration and powerlessness 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Have to agree with you Richard. Lerner is not a victim in this. No one is saying he is, some just don't take the rose-tinted glasses view of Ellis' reign.just because I'm saying Lerner is worse than Ellis does not mean I am viewing Ellis's reign with rose coloured glasses or saying it was a good reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmarsha_926 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Lerner's biggest failing was hiring Houllier to change the style of play, which he did with the help of £24 million Darren Bent and some very good players and then we he left, no hiring a manager to keep that passing style he had under Houllier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powell91 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Have to agree with you Richard. Lerner is not a victim in this. No one is saying he is, some just don't take the rose-tinted glasses view of Ellis' reign. just because I'm saying Lerner is worse than Ellis does not mean I am viewing Ellis's reign with rose coloured glasses or saying it was a good reign. For me the last few years are the worst i have ever witnessed as a villa fan. I am afraid I have to overlook the past like when we were relegated but I wasn't born then neither was i for when we won the european cup and although I acknowlege those events happened and how big a part of our history they were because I wasn't there to witness it, it's never really affected me as it would for the fans that were there to witness it. I can only go on what I have witnessed. Since i have been a villa fan ellis was always just steady not good but boring we were stuck in a limbo. Under lerner we have been completely torn apart by one bad decision after another to the point where we look inevitable to get relegated whether it be this season or the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Have to agree with you Richard. Lerner is not a victim in this. No one is saying he is, some just don't take the rose-tinted glasses view of Ellis' reign. just because I'm saying Lerner is worse than Ellis does not mean I am viewing Ellis's reign with rose coloured glasses or saying it was a good reign. I wasn't talking about individuals but I do think some (not necessarily you) are looking at Ellis' reign through rose-tinted glasses. Phrases like "Ellis wouldn't have stood for this" get trotted out but people seem to forget that we were actually relegated under Ellis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day, and I've been watching Villa since the late 70s. Never in all my years have I been so depressed about the Villa as I am now. We may have been relegated under Ellis but we soon bounced back and built good teams who competed in the top level of football. Under Lerner we are now relegation fodder season after season after season, something we've never been in all the years I've watched Villa. This is easily the worst Villa era in decades and it's all thanks to Randy Lerner and his devaluation of Aston Villa. It's disgusting what he is doing to the club. Just imagine the grief Ellis would be getting from the fans right now if it was he that was running Villa into the ground and not Randy Lerner. He must be scratching his head in disbelief. When are the fans going to stand up and be counted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts