DCJonah Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Its been long enough to get over the mistakes of MON. It's all a continuum. MON **** buried us and we are dealing with that to this very day. Not really. Hiring houllier and McLeish and wasting even more money stopped any chance of recovering after the mistakes made under MON and hiring Lambert and giving him pennies to spend has just made us worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 15, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 15, 2015 FFP is a valid reason why we won't get close to challenging top 4. I don't think it's a valid reason for consecutive relegation battles. I absolutely agree. It's stopping us moving out of the group we're in, but it's not stopping us competing in that group. This club should still be able to be a top 8 club even with FFP regulations. We've just been run so poorly (even when times were good) that we're feeling the effects of FFP and will feel those effects for more years to come. Not the rules fault but the way we've been run as a club for far too long. Again, I largely agree. We've made some mistakes, we've gone to extremes from one method to another and back again and we've done all the things that people say you shouldn't do when you're in trouble. I'm not sure our present standing allows us to be a regular top 8 club, but I think we should be capable of that Newcastle-like thing of having a good year or two then a bad year or two - we're stuck without the good years at the moment and it's down to poor decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Its been long enough to get over the mistakes of MON. It's all a continuum. MON **** buried us and we are dealing with that to this very day. Not really. Hiring houllier and McLeish and wasting even more money stopped any chance of recovering after the mistakes made under MON and hiring Lambert and giving him pennies to spend has just made us worse. You just underlined my point. It's a continuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 15, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 15, 2015 i think its time for the 'money sign' signs to be produced again at Villa park, like we done under DD Deadly Doug that took millions out of the club at the time when it was possible to put in millions? Not sure how effective that'll be against Randy Lerner who put in a couple of hundred million and now isn't allowed to put in much more than he is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 15, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 15, 2015 The fact that 7 months on from publicly announcing the club is for sale we appear to be no closer to him finding a buyer shows how big an idiot he was to make the announcement he did. I think it also shows that he's in a pickle - he owns and doesn't want a business that no one in their right mind would buy. The big problem with FFP (And the reason why I don't think it'll be around forever) is that it turns a whole lot of clubs into dead wood - you can't make a profit and you can't succeed. We could be in limbo for years to come because he has pissed his money away in some kind of mid life crisis and now thinks that the club should pay him back for his mistakes. I don't think we're paying anything back right now - the next accounts might show me to be wrong, but up until the last set of released accounts, Lerner is still throwing money in, not dragging it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 FFP is a valid reason why we won't get close to challenging top 4. I don't think it's a valid reason for consecutive relegation battles. I absolutely agree. It's stopping us moving out of the group we're in, but it's not stopping us competing in that group. This club should still be able to be a top 8 club even with FFP regulations. We've just been run so poorly (even when times were good) that we're feeling the effects of FFP and will feel those effects for more years to come. Not the rules fault but the way we've been run as a club for far too long. Again, I largely agree. We've made some mistakes, we've gone to extremes from one method to another and back again and we've done all the things that people say you shouldn't do when you're in trouble. I'm not sure our present standing allows us to be a regular top 8 club, but I think we should be capable of that Newcastle-like thing of having a good year or two then a bad year or two - we're stuck without the good years at the moment and it's down to poor decision making. It doesn't prevent us from doing anything if we're run properly. No reason whatsoever that we should be 13th while Southampton are 3rd, Swansea 7th etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 15, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 15, 2015 FFP is a valid reason why we won't get close to challenging top 4. I don't think it's a valid reason for consecutive relegation battles. I absolutely agree. It's stopping us moving out of the group we're in, but it's not stopping us competing in that group. This club should still be able to be a top 8 club even with FFP regulations. We've just been run so poorly (even when times were good) that we're feeling the effects of FFP and will feel those effects for more years to come. Not the rules fault but the way we've been run as a club for far too long. Again, I largely agree. We've made some mistakes, we've gone to extremes from one method to another and back again and we've done all the things that people say you shouldn't do when you're in trouble. I'm not sure our present standing allows us to be a regular top 8 club, but I think we should be capable of that Newcastle-like thing of having a good year or two then a bad year or two - we're stuck without the good years at the moment and it's down to poor decision making. It doesn't prevent us from doing anything if we're run properly. No reason whatsoever that we should be 13th while Southampton are 3rd, Swansea 7th etc. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Swansea are 9th and the reason we're not closer in the league to them is down to our manager. Southampton had the benefit of a once in a generation batch of highly talented youth players coming through who they've sold for hefty profits and then reinvested into the team via a manager who has an eye for talent. That youth system was implement years ago and way before the current incumbent or her father owned the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Swansea are 9th and the reason we're not closer in the league to them is down to our manager. Southampton had the benefit of a once in a generation batch of highly talented youth players coming through who they've sold for hefty profits and then reinvested into the team via a manager who has an eye for talent. That youth system was implement years ago and way before the current incumbent or her father owned the club. but it isn't a batch is it, Shearer, Le Tissier is just a few....they have done it for years....some come through more some years than others granted our problem is we THINK we are in the same league for academy players and we are not ......sure we have won the odd trophy, but we have stopped producing highly acclaimed players like Brian Little & Gary Shaw our fans are simply delusional when it comes to the Villa Youth. we create a batch for the championship and we are patting ourselves on the back....and when we do get some like Sturridge, Cahill and Davies we let them go. The club is riddled with poor decision makers Edited January 15, 2015 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Swansea are 9th and the reason we're not closer in the league to them is down to our manager. Southampton had the benefit of a once in a generation batch of highly talented youth players coming through who they've sold for hefty profits and then reinvested into the team via a manager who has an eye for talent. That youth system was implement years ago and way before the current incumbent or her father owned the club. You can have talented players but it still takes the manager to play them (and in the right position) and get the best out of them and also to sell them when their value is at their highest. Swansea and Southampton have proven a lot better at selling players than us and hence have had money to reinvest. In terms of Lerner we just have to play the waiting game. He has put his money in and it has been wasted. It should be best for all parties once he moves on. Edited January 15, 2015 by Brumstopdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Randy Lerners biggest fault is....He has not been the best at picking people who he lets play with his money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Swansea are 9th and the reason we're not closer in the league to them is down to our manager. Southampton had the benefit of a once in a generation batch of highly talented youth players coming through who they've sold for hefty profits and then reinvested into the team via a manager who has an eye for talent. That youth system was implement years ago and way before the current incumbent or her father owned the club. Y Swansea and Southampton have proven a lot better at selling players than us and hence have had money to reinvest. Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Swansea are 9th and the reason we're not closer in the league to them is down to our manager. Southampton had the benefit of a once in a generation batch of highly talented youth players coming through who they've sold for hefty profits and then reinvested into the team via a manager who has an eye for talent. That youth system was implement years ago and way before the current incumbent or her father owned the club. Y Swansea and Southampton have proven a lot better at selling players than us and hence have had money to reinvest. Spot on Southampton have sold over £120M worth of players they themselves have produced over the last 3-4 years. That's not being better at selling players, that's being better at producing them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't think we're once again struggling to survive because of our youth team. Southampton have done well in the situation they created while our owner has made bad decision after bad decision for probably around 6 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Southampton have sold over £120M worth of players they themselves have produced over the last 3-4 years. That's not being better at selling players, that's being better at producing them. That is actually being better at selling and producing! Anyway, Southampton have not sold £120m of players they have produced (that have come through their youth system) over the last 3-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Nobody is saying that, Big John. Someone asked why we're not competing with Swansea or Soton. My point was that we should be competing with Swansea; and we would if it wasn't for our clueless manager. As for Southampton, they're a special case and asking why we're not competing with them is futile - they've benefited from the products of one of Europe's best youth academies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Swansea are 9th and the reason we're not closer in the league to them is down to our manager. Southampton had the benefit of a once in a generation batch of highly talented youth players coming through who they've sold for hefty profits and then reinvested into the team via a manager who has an eye for talent. That youth system was implement years ago and way before the current incumbent or her father owned the club. Y Swansea and Southampton have proven a lot better at selling players than us and hence have had money to reinvest. Spot on Southampton have sold over £120M worth of players they themselves have produced over the last 3-4 years. That's not being better at selling players, that's being better at producing them. corrected....yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Southampton have sold over £120M worth of players they themselves have produced over the last 3-4 years. That's not being better at selling players, that's being better at producing them. That is actually being better at selling and producing! Anyway, Southampton have not sold £120m of players they have produced (that have come through their youth system) over the last 3-4 years. I exaggerated somewhat but they've made huge amounts from selling four/five players brought through their own academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Nobody is saying that, Big John. Someone asked why we're not competing with Swansea or Soton. My point was that we should be competing with Swansea; and we would if it wasn't for our clueless manager. As for Southampton, they're a special case and asking why we're not competing with them is futile - they've benefited from the products of one of Europe's best youth academies. danger is that all those teams that produce on low budgets are a special case, Everton was cited as such not long ago. our own Ron Saunders did it, but no doubt some will cite a different era.....there is always a cop out somewhere that defaults back to ....unlucky old us...what more can the poor souls do. no one will ever say the staff ain't good enough. Edited January 15, 2015 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I exaggerated somewhat but they've made huge amounts from selling four/five players brought through their own academy. Yes, agreed they have done very well with their academy and this is surely something we should be looking at developing. Exaggeration by just the £40m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts